this post was submitted on 29 Aug 2023
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Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

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[–] [email protected] 52 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (12 children)

who even decides what's "modern" anymore?

can anyone, honestly, without reading the article (or guessing from the headline), tell me which of these is the "modern" design?

screenshot of the nautilus file manager in light mode screenshot of the nautilus file manager in light mode

edit: people are getting confused by the fact that one is tree view, not icons view so i changed the image. old image here

[–] [email protected] 37 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Apparently "modern" means hiding options behind extra clicks

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (5 children)

i may be blind but what exactly was hidden behind one or more clicks?

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Clearly the dark mode is the modern one! Jokes aside, I just realized that there THREE menu options on that toolbar: hamburger, kebab, and waffle! I realize they do different things, but no wonder people are confused by and scared of computers. Also, now I'm hungry!

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

TIL of kebab and waffle menus.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

as someone who's not scared of computers, i have no idea what they do. i assume the right one is icons/list/compact[^1] not a waffle menu, but the hamburger and kebab? i have no clue

[^1]: though why it's showing list when the current view is icons, i don't know either

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Since the kebab menu is inside the location/search box, I'm guessing it contains search-related options.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It has the same options as right clicking on an empty space in a directory. Stuff like Create a new folder, Create a new file, that sort of thing. "Actions you might wanna make on this directory". When you start searching, there is another button that appears and that one is the one that let you filter search options

I dont see the usefulness of that button tbh. Its like it assumes good ol right click isnt discoverable on its own. Idk anyond who has a mouse and hasnt pressed right click ever.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

That would be useful on a tablet, where right-clicking is impossible.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

It's just my opinion (since it's not in the article) but a thing that makes Gnome and Libadwaita a "modern design" is the fact that the production behind it tries to bridge the gap between a "mouse and keyboard" and a "touch screen" workflow.
None of the other DEs come even close to Gnome when used on a tablet

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Agreed, I'm not an expert, kind of new to linux, but I could see being very comfortable on a Gnome based tablet.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

meh, subjectively i find that creates a "worst of both worlds" situation. but this comment was more about the futility of the development time that went into this specific feature

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

this comment was more about the futility of the development time that went into this specific feature

yeah sorry, I should have been more specific with my answer: features like this are supposed to help you in a touch screen situation or in general with smaller screens.
When the window is resized under a certain size, the left panel becomes hidden and with it part of the top bar, to make it less cluttered and confusing.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

The first one doesn't waste space in the title bar by expanding the locator and navigator buttons there.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Full height sidebar - from Mac OS 7 or so - must be modern?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Petition to force anyone talking about software to use "trendy" or "fashionable" instead of "modern".

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Well the dark mode screenshot makes less efficient use of space so it must be the modern one.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

List/grid view are in the top right. This is an unfair comparison having one in list and one in grid, when they both clearly have a button (in the same location even) to switch modes.

Dark is clearly the modern one though, but presumably you can switch between dark and light.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I was referring to the unnecessary header text on the sidebar, squeezing everything else up there. I am aware there are different display modes lol

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

It'd be kinda nice if they made these kinds of changes options rather than just deciding this is best

Could honestly take it or leave it, doesn't really add anything

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago
  • Adding options

  • Gnome desktop

Pick one.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

i'm not even sure it's worth having an option. i don't think i'd even have noticed a difference, apart from the menu button being in a slightly different place to every other gnome app. it's fine; but it wasn't worth the development time

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

The last thing I want is an option for this. My gosh, imagine the amount of options you would end up with if every single design choice was turned into an option. Who in the world would like that many options.

I'm happy to just have a design team work on whatever they think looks better and works best for the user experience, and implement it after some rounds of public review and testing. This looks neat enough to me - slightly less cluttered than what my current Nautilus window looks like while maintaining the same functionality.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Who in the world would like that many options.

KDE fans?

Awww, Plasma fans, you know I'm playin'.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Seriously, I envy you guys. Every time I try to use Plasma, I end up spending all my time tweaking the desktop, and by the time I'm done, I realize I've just recreated the Gnome workflow...

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I tried KDE, it's cool but I get the same thing of trying to recreate gnome/pantheon

It kinda sucks in GNOME when there's just one thing you would like to change though

Have been trying to get a tiling window manager on GNOME but all the gnome extensions that do it kinda suck

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Really? I'm not a tiling WM kinda guy, but I thought Forge was decent.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I found it rather laggy. Maybe I should give it more of a chance just felt clunky and laggy to me (I assume because it's superimposed ontop of GNOME not integrated into it)

Edit: I gave it another chance and I actually really like it thank you for calling me out on that

Think it was only clunky because I already had a bunch of stuff open before turning it on

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

That's the neat thing. It's so customizable, you can turn it into another desktop environment.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I mean, almost. I can pull it off on my desktop, but I can't get the touchpad/touchscreen gestures to work right on my laptop.

Kinda looking forward to Plasma 6 to play around with, though. Might even be enough to get me to switch for a while!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

every time i try to use gnome, i end up spending all my time going "dammit, where are all the bleeding features"

(also the lack of fitts' law adherence due to that pointless bar at the top)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I had to look up Fitts's law, and I'm not sure I get it. Could you explain what you mean?

ETA: I kinda feel like mine was about KDE not being a fit for me personally, and yours was a slam on Gnome rather than a statement of personal preference.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I had to look up Fitts’s law, and I’m not sure I get it. Could you explain what you mean?

basically; the speed that it takes to click a button is dependant on the size of the button and the distance from the cursor. however, buttons at the edge of the screen have effectively infinite size, as they can't be overshot. the most used actions should be placed there, as they are the easiest to click by muscle memory (particularly the corners, as they have infinite size in both dimensions)

on windows, kde, cinnamon, etc.; by default the bottom left is start, the bottom right is show desktop (this one i can't explain), and the top right is close maximised window. the top of the screen is also used for other window-related actions like minimise, restore, change csd tabs, etc.

gnome flouts this by having most of the top of the screen doing nothing (most of it is completely empty) apart from rarely used actions like calendar and power. and the bottom right and left doing nothing[^1]

did i explain well?

ETA: I kinda feel like mine was about KDE not being a fit for me personally, and yours was a slam on Gnome rather than a statement of personal preference.

nah it was very much a personal thing: some people like having a minimal and clutter-free feature set; i like having as many features as possible, because then i find features i didn't even know i liked.[^2]

as for the top bar: this one confuses me - it just seems objectively bad. but obviously it's not as some people clearly like it. i haven't had anyone actually explain to me why, though

[^1]: i mean they also ignore it in other ways, too

[^2]: i didn't know how useful a terminal embedded in the file manager would be until i started using dolphin, now i can't do without it

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

did i explain well?

Yes, thank you!

I personally love the feature set of Gnome, but I can see your point. Compared to other DEs, it might seem like a lot of wasted space. And I guess in a way it is, but I don't miss those other functions.

The top right corner doesn't even need a click to go to overview, which brings up my desktop view and the app launcher - that's the bottom left and bottom right functions you described in one place, which makes sense to me since in my head they're related.

The top right is still close maximized windows, but because of the way the Gnome workflow is structured, I don't really use minimize basically ever, so I don't miss it. Also in the upper right we have volume control and battery feedback.

I never have more virtual desktops than I'm actually using. Everything is exactly where I expect it to be. My brain is wired for the Gnome workflow, and extra options justbatent needed.

I've used Dolphin's terminal in file manager thing, and while I can see the utility, I prefer my right-click -> open in Console setup. That's just me, though.

Eh. It takes all kinds to make the world go round, I guess. FTR, I am a huge fan of the KDE project. Their contributions to the Linux world are massive and cannot be overstated. Krita alone is amazing, and I used calligre as my main office software for a few years.

I'm just not a Plasma guy. ¯_ (ツ) _/¯

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

@Zeus @s20 wow this is interesting and makes perfect sense.

I really like GNOME and the functionality I use the most is the top left overview. Incredibly useful and easily accessible.

GNOME really should use the other 3 corners.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Well I just switched to KDE Plasma last week and I'm pleasantly surprised just how many things are configurable via a menu and how well it runs on Wayland With a Nvidia GPU.

I used to despise KDE Neon, and used Gnome for a bit, but I don't think I can go back anymore until their design philosophy changes again.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

I hope they stick to the design philosophy, having different choices in DE is a good thing.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Problem for me is KDE is dependant on configuration to get it to look nice, GNOME looks nice and works well out of the box but sucks if you want to do anything ontop of that base

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

The bottom one looks like a mobile app interface, so it must've been the "modern" one.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

"Modern" means copying Mac OS or iOS.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Honestly, I haven't yet seen the article, the light theme one is probably newer because of tabs.

Anyways both look like an android app, I know most will hate reading this but Windows Explorer rules.

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