this post was submitted on 23 Aug 2023
1770 points (98.6% liked)

Technology

58303 readers
13 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related content.
  3. Be excellent to each another!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed

Approved Bots


founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Leaked Zoom all-hands: CEO says employees must return to offices because they can't be as innovative or get to know each other on Zoom::Zoom CEO Eric Yuan discussed the benefits of in-person work in a leaked meeting.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 56 points 1 year ago (9 children)

I think he has a point. So many great ideas at my company were birthed sitting around the table while eating breakfast or drinking coffee.

People ask me stuff they they wouldn't have sent a ticket about because "it's not a big issue" and by looking into some of it we find way better methods of dealing with types of workflows.

It's not the meetings where we find the best ideas. It's during the coffee breaks. But you need you coworkers to have coffee breaks with so you have something to talk about.

That being said. I'm not American and we don't have the American office landscapes or office politics.

[–] [email protected] 44 points 1 year ago (3 children)

My company is complete work from home. The issue is that people can't imagine coworkers talking to each other and being friends while working remotely.

I spend half of most days in spontaneous voice chats with coworkers where we have these exact same moments. Spontaneous discussions leading to ideas that change the way we do things.

It's not exclusive to being in an office. You just need to adapt to a new work style.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

3/4 of the team I am on work from home, 2 of us full time, We have weekly scheduled meetings with no agenda other than to catch up and this is where ideas can come up, We haven't all been in an office together since before the lockdown yet we continue to thrive. I also have most of each Friday blocked out to work with one of the team on whatever he happens to be working on that day. We just jump in a meeting and do stuff. And like you we are all open to just spontaneous chats at any time either by text or call. It works perfectly well.

I guess you also have those chats where you pull other people in during the conversation, Oh, Suchandsuch will have input, send them an invite to this meeting etc :)

I love it, I get peace and quite when needed to code, and all the interaction I need to make the job work.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

We have a daily SUM which is supposed to last 15 minutes. It is usually over an hour, but work makes up at best 20 minutes. The rest is just us chatting.

We also have regular calls with other teams which follow a similar pattern.

It is easy to have "water-cooler" chats while working remotely.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

It’s not exclusive to being in an office. You just need to adapt to a new work style.

I've spent 2 years in WFH during COVID and haven't seen this working in any of the teams (even though there were attempts).

One problem is just that remote calls suck a lot, especially if you have latency and audio issues. People talking over each other, then saying "sorry" and waiting 20 seconds, audio too high or low or just poor quality etc. A lot of it could be solved with technology, but weirdly it hasn't happened yet.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It's crazy how people have been talking on the phone for like a hundred years and talking over each other was something that was easy to work out.

But put the same technology on a computer and suddenly people forgot how to talk on the phone.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Phone has usually lower latency than internet. Consequence of circuit vs. packet switching.

But otherwise I hate phone as well. Miserable audio quality.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Group calls weren’t the norm until recently. I fucking despise group zoom calls. I normally will just not contribute at all because it’s impossible to be heard. Someone else will always talk over you. This is the 3rd team I’ve worked remote on, and it hasn’t worked on any of them so far.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I've spent longer than that and I'm not sure where the issue is. It works fine for us. Perhaps it's a US thing with poor internet quality?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

I'm in the US and haven't had any issues with being remote and calling a coworker to chat for a bit. It's not any different than using a phone.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Nah I'm in the US. Garbage internet provider. No issues.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Idk, I leverage Slack huddles regularly and have absolutely no issues with multiple people hanging out and having casual conversations while working. We do these spontaneously throughout the day.

How old are your coworkers generally? My company is mostly on the younger side of things. We grew up with team speak, steam voice chat, and now are often in discord. This is not unfamiliar territory and has always worked well outside of the office.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Same here. What I hear from people who can't innovate, collaborate, insert-activity-here, etc. while working remotely is that they have competency issues in their workforce.

Companies building great things creatively and remotely are not exceptional, and antisocial behaviours when working remotely are a problem with the person, not the technology. But it's easier to blame the tech than admit your colleagues or team are dysfunctional so "back to the office!" It is for most. I'll pass though.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago

But that means the great idea moments are during unproductive times. People at the office must be allowed to be unproductive. If there is strict no talking and no coffee breaks allowed and strict clocking in because time is money there isn't much innovative benefit to being in the office.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sounds like a small company you work at with tight nit group.

In the states, a good portion of jobs out there are soulless corporate jobs with predefined work. It’s just a grind.

Let’s be honest. If I discovered good ideas at a soulless corp, I wouldn’t be using those ideas at soulless corp.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

I have tons of spontaneous calls all day on teams when remote. These moments still happen and don't require an office. These companies that fail to adapt will be left in the dust.

[–] foo 6 points 1 year ago

I mean, people shit talk on discord all the time

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ideas don't come from a coffee break, that's superstitious nonsense.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago

You're not going to sit there, and tell me what my own experience is at my own place of work. Fuck off.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I agree, but wouldn't underestimate meetings. People say that you're losing productivity, but IME the largest losses of productivity are caused by working on the wrong things, because of too little communication. Sometimes it's things that are not needed anymore, sometimes it's just aspects of the feature which are not important (e.g. overengineering) because of lack of context.

I'm not saying all meetings are always needed, but in larger organizations the sync between people and teams is very important.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

That said, working from home has so far saved me a lot of both time and money. This is a thing to consider as an employee when considering who to work for (or if your boss takes it away, if you still want to work there after essentially having a benefit revoked unilateraly).

Public transit pass. Actual time for transit which for me was around 90 minutes a day (7.5 hours a week!), more complex lunch logistics (time or money), etc.

A quieter workplace, no need to book rarely available rooms to take calls/meetings. There were upsides.

My first remote job had almost no issues at all. We already knew each other and we still took time to discuss issues via calls. New job not so much. We tend to be pressed for time so only focus on obvious "work" and then works suffers because of a lack of communication/common vision.