this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2023
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Lemmy.World Announcements
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Based on the down votes and comments I think a lot of people could benefit from reading the whole post...
I read the whole post, understand the reasons and respect them. Ultimately piracy is one of the topics I'm here to read about, so these changes still make lemmy.world a less usable instance for me and I don't like that
yeah that's valid I feel you. I'm in the same boat
I have a question. Let's say there's a piracy community on a different lemmy instance. I can still subscribe to it and interact with this lemmy world account, correct? Is there any difference at all between communities on your "home" instance versus external communities other than it showing as {community_name}@{lemmy_instance}?
Edit: oh I see, they actually banned access to the piracy community of a whole different instance too? That seems crazy?? I can understand removing piracy community from your own instance but what on earth is the rationale behind removing access to a whole different servers community?? I'm going to move now I've seen this.
Because in German jurisdiction, linking to illegal content can bring with it fines. It's ridiculous, but that's where we are, more specifically we have a lawyer who is insanely prolific at sending out legal threats and asking for ridiculous amounts of money for this.
And now the problem: Due to the way ActivityPub works, one instance "pulls" the links posted on another instance to itself. At that point,
lemmy.worldis hosting links to content XYZ, not the other instance. Hence they'd be legally actionable. And being the largest instance of lemmy, this is the one any lawyer firm wanting to make quick bucks or any music industry wanting to appear like they're doing anything worth all the money to their consitutents would go after this one, not any other instance.The protocol is a bit of a double-edged sword: Yes you're not hosting the content, but if links can be fined then those get pulled over essentially without you being able to do shit about it.
The problem is that these communities never linked to any form of illegal content. Itβs against their rules to do so. So no laws were being broken.
Then why the hell would you host anything instance in Germany?
Because you might be - and I know this can surprise some - a German?
Among other things it makes a lot of things easier. For example, assume you get sued for something with your server that you're hosting in, say, Sweden. Now you need a lawyer both in Germany and in Sweden (most likely, though one in Sweden might be enough depending on what is happening) to handle the case, as usually the swedish lawyer defending you will want to talk to legal representation of yours over where you live. Not exactly making it any better, is it?
Of course, you could host your server on some utterly remote place no one can viably take you to court, but then they could still sue you (personally, as the person running the place) in your home country anyways, so it's not like you get around anything this way.
Naive. First off there are many places with very good technical service where you won't have issue. And secondly there are ways to do it well. Do it through a firm, do it through a friend from there. There are options. I'm certain there are countries and firms where they are absolutely not obliged to tell some German lawyer who owns the domain.
I don't know if these people are Germans or not. But this site isn't hosted in Germany.
Yeah but it's also weird that people downvote it. As always, voting is not meant to signify agreement vs disagreement, rather "exposure" vs "bury".
So I suspect a whole lot of people wouldn't want others to read the statement, were it not pinned? π€·
That's never been how people use votes and I'm not sure why there's any expectation for it to change now.
I read it, and it's nutless. I'm hearing "we preemptively protected ourselves from legal liability, showing our willingness to do so again without notice or discussion. However, we pinky promise to not do it again unless we feel like it". And what I'm inferring is that this platform will sell me out if it's legally convenient for them. That's not encouraging.
Yup. Absolutely cowardly. I very much doubt they talked to a decent lawyer. A lot of lawyers (perhaps most) out there will give you dumb opinions, like, "Oh, that sounds a bit wishy-washy to me. I would advise it." Without actually properly sitting down and saying, "Yes it's illegal (or no it's not) in this jurisdiction, based on this interpretation of the law. There have been some cases that suggest this interpretation, etc."
That's not to say the answer is always possible to know. Maybe there hasn't been any similar cases to test some legal interpretation. But the moment these people trot out vague moralizing answers or answers that seem too simple you know they're full of it.
A lot of things are possible if you talk to a decent lawyer that has metaphorical big balls.
Hey, you host your own instance, and you do the legal fights to defend people you don't know at all from elsewhere on the world with your own private money. Good on you! π»