hey folks, here's a quick update on our decision to defederate from sh.itjust.works! (and here's sh.itjust.works's side of this update)
we got in touch with the head admin over there, The Dude, and we had a pretty good chat about our concerns and reason for defederating. while immediate re-federation is just bluntly off the table with the rudimentary state of Lemmy's moderation tools, we now have a pretty good idea of the roadmap to refederating with them. we think we'll eventually be able to do this, although we don't have a timetable on when yet.
we're also now collaborating with him on how to move forward--and in the weeks and months to come we'll be pushing to expedite the process of developing some of the necessary tools. this decision has really helped us make connections that can hopefully realize those tools both on the desktop side and in apps being developed for Lemmy. we're also hoping to collaborate with other Lemmy administrators who have needs like our own, or just generally want more granular tools at their disposal.
we did also get in touch with the lemmy.world owner prior to defederating to share the concerns that prompted us to defederate[^1]--but we have not received any communication from him since it was levied, so there's no roadmap at all there as of now. we're always open to reconsidering and collaborating to end the defederation with him, but for now the earliest i can give you is "when mod tools are in a better state".
that's all for now folks. if any new significant developments take place we'll announce them as needed.
[^1]: we're only bringing this up now because it was just not useful information in the context of our announcement. it almost certainly would have been interpreted as some sort of callousness and/or brought unnecessary sectarianism and grief to him. at the end of the day he has his reasons and desires for running lemmy.world how he does, and we have ours for running Beehaw as we do. because of social and technological circumstances those are just incompatible right now, and that's fine.
In my application here I cited the decision to de-fed from them as why I chose to sign up for beehaw. I was looking through shitjustworks and was absolutely not liking how it seemed to be absorbing some of the worst "libertarianism and rationalism are my excuse to insult people" types from reddit. I'll be interested to see whether their admins succeed in wrangling their 'hives'.
This is in the nature of the domain name. If you name your site "shit just works" you can't be surprised if you build a bubble for idiots in the first wave of registrations.
I'm not bashing on the site or their Admins.i say that out of own experience over the last 25+ years on the internet and some exp in hosting forums and all that myself.
Fun fact. Your take just made me sign up there too.
I actually seek different perspectives and don't quite agree with any particular place that is very "ideologically packeted" like most tend to. Where "they insult" and "we don't, because if they feel insulted is because of Reality and how right we are".
I'm new to all this fediverse and I'm curious to see how different niche interests develop and if we can actually form the usefulness that Reddit threads could have or if it's a unique and different usefulness...
Sometimes I wanna see what everyone else sees. That's why I also have an account on another instance. But sometimes I don't want the risk of seeing people question my right to exist (how often on reddit do I come across someone who's "just asking questions"). That's why I'm here. So glad reddit is dead now bc we're all here instead.
I'd word it as, you don't want the risk of other people writing a specific opinion on a specific topic that you don't agree with.
Because the whole "right to exist" thing is very relative and dependent on framing.
It's very common that criticism of X is taken as "you are -ism" or if you're not voting exactly how I tell you to then you are denying my rights to exist. There's lot of nuance In conversations of "where does my rights end and yours start" but the typical thing I see is "I want there to be no discussion about this, only axiom A".
Reddit is not dead, only time will tell what happens with but I'd say Reddit is pretty much like what you talk about, with some slight variations on niche places.
There's a difference between having an opinion I don't agree with and comparing being trans to "wanting to be peppa pig". And then when I rightfully get offended and angry they lose their fucking minds bc I dared insult them. It's happened many times, and yes, this is based on a real example from reddit. (tw: transphobia obviously)
I don't know why you would share that link thinking it reflects what you initially said.
I will avoid continuing this conversation because I don't think it will get anywhere but to me, it's clear who is bullying whom and who misrepresents opinions as "denying your right to exist" and allows no debate.
It's easy to think being righteous does not make you a bully but that's exactly how mobs operate, by thinking their righteous ends justify the means.
I'm ok if Beehaw bans transphobia from their instance.
Only if that rule is accurately defined. It's definitely not occuring in the link provided unless you consider "getting bullied and disagreeing with other user" transphobia.
I'm not going to engage with the other user anymore. They want freedom to insult and censor because "they're righteous". It's not an attitude that's specific to one group, mind you, but it's definitely an enlightening interaction in the context of this thread.
Authortiarianism doesn't sit well with me and I consider it an absolute no but I'm playing by the instance rules. I don't think they are but it is what it is.
We'll see how this space develops. Individual users are not relevant, anyway, but the aggregate.
Just a heads up, we have a whole philosophy post about why we aren't going to "accurately define" rules. If you're not nice to other people, you're not welcome here. There are many mods and admins, myself included, who view transphobia as definitively not nice behavior and it represents the safe space we have here, especially for minority individuals like transgender ones.
I don't particular want to engage too much on this but I guess if you think the user was being nice then you have a very inconsistent view.
My take, looking at the reactions, is that it's less so a safe space and more a place to bully dissent if you have a specific righteous attitude.
And we can look at the user's specific interactions in the Reddit link they provided or with me. Calling generic "transphobia" doesn't cut it.
If after looking at that you're 100% in agreement of their actions then revising your rules to be more honest will avoid similar conversations or encounters.
I literally do not have time to be reviewing what another user said on another platform. I'm an admin and I'm far too busy for that level of interaction right now.
Transphobia is not nice and thus not tolerated, full stop.
Debating human rights is not nice and thus not tolerated, full stop.
If you have issue with either of these statements or the fact that we have explicitly designed a system which is interpretable to prevent jerks from skirting the rules and ruining a place, then this probably isn't the place for you.
This isn't the place for me if I disagree with you in allowing bullying based on righteous attitudes.
Gotcha. All the way.
You also have no time to address the specific but enough time to come at me and "soft threaten me".
The level of circlejerk is way higher than I expected when I first started. Thanks for clearing it all up.
It's our way (of bullying) or the highway, and we will hide beyond the pretense of minority status (without even knowing who are we talking with, which is extra levels of hilarious).
I just hope you would be more honest about it. Not so disingenuous about it.
Reminder before the ban or whatever , that It was all unprompted. Toodles. Good luck with your whole enclosure.
I think it's curation, not censorship. This server isn't a bastion of free speech, because it's made for a specific community. I have accounts on other servers, but I use this one more often because it's curated and has less spam.
The server is not a bastion for bullying/insulting pretending to be righteous either. From everything I've read from the admin what the other user did isn't it.
If you haven't looked at the user that initially replied to me, their comments here and on the Reddit link speak for themselves.
Nor should it be, ever. I respect the admins and have donated because I think they're making good decisions.
just fucking defend the reactionaries why don't you. Bet you're the type who sees nazis committing genocide, and minorities fighting back, and says "man why can't both sides stop fighting????" Enough with the fucking respectability politics already. In an uncivil age, y'all motherfucker's calls for "civility" are just a device to squash all protest so you can get your way, not actually an argument made in good faith.
Hey, well, I'm blocking you so I don't have to see this bullshit again.
There have been open calls to "eradicate transgenderism", along with a nearly endless amount of anti-trans legislation in many parts of the world. Their rhetoric frequently borders on genocidal. It is 100% about our right to exist.
We're not some hypothetical to have a pleasant debate over tea about, we are real people with real lives being directly harmed by real policy. Some of us are tired of being nice about it.
Sometimes I do wish for a downvote.