this post was submitted on 15 Mar 2025
604 points (99.5% liked)

Europe

4234 readers
1946 users here now

News and information from Europe 🇪🇺

(Current banner: La Mancha, Spain. Feel free to post submissions for banner images.)

Rules (2024-08-30)

  1. This is an English-language community. Comments should be in English. Posts can link to non-English news sources when providing a full-text translation in the post description. Automated translations are fine, as long as they don't overly distort the content.
  2. No links to misinformation or commercial advertising. When you post outdated/historic articles, add the year of publication to the post title. Infographics must include a source and a year of creation; if possible, also provide a link to the source.
  3. Be kind to each other, and argue in good faith. Don't post direct insults nor disrespectful and condescending comments. Don't troll nor incite hatred. Don't look for novel argumentation strategies at Wikipedia's List of fallacies.
  4. No bigotry, sexism, racism, antisemitism, dehumanization of minorities, or glorification of National Socialism.
  5. Be the signal, not the noise: Strive to post insightful comments. Add "/s" when you're being sarcastic (and don't use it to break rule no. 3).
  6. If you link to paywalled information, please provide also a link to a freely available archived version. Alternatively, try to find a different source.
  7. Light-hearted content, memes, and posts about your European everyday belong in [email protected]. (They're cool, you should subscribe there too!)
  8. Don't evade bans. If we notice ban evasion, that will result in a permanent ban for all the accounts we can associate with you.
  9. No posts linking to speculative reporting about ongoing events with unclear backgrounds. Please wait at least 12 hours. (E.g., do not post breathless reporting on an ongoing terror attack.)

(This list may get expanded when necessary.)

We will use some leeway to decide whether to remove a comment.

If need be, there are also bans: 3 days for lighter offenses, 14 days for bigger offenses, and permanent bans for people who don't show any willingness to participate productively. If we think the ban reason is obvious, we may not specifically write to you.

If you want to protest a removal or ban, feel free to write privately to the mods: @[email protected], @[email protected], or @[email protected].

founded 8 months ago
MODERATORS
 

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 59 points 1 day ago (2 children)

The estimates for the Belgrade protest go as far as 800k participants.

Serbia has a population of 6.6 million.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (1 children)

800k participants.

A little background info on number of the 1st picture: According to the comments of the Serbian Pic I stole:

-The initial numbers of participants were extremely underrereported (100 K) by Reuters.

-The whole city seemed packed according to witnesses. so all the streets and parks were full with people ( as seen on drone images), he reckoned to add the cities population of 1.5 M to the tally.

-Others said that the other ( smaller) cities & towns seemed empty.

-Therefore, he guesstimated: 1.6 M and counting..

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (1 children)

he reckoned to add the cities population of 1.5 M to the tally.

That would mean 90% of Belgrade was in the streets that day. As intense the popular support of the protests is, that number is surely a strech. 800k is already quite mind-boggling by the standards of the country... actually, by the standards of any country.

Edit: "The number of protesters present in Belgrade at the protest is disputed: the official government figure provided by MUP was 107,000, an analysis by the Archive of Public Meetings found there were between 275,000 and 325,000 present "with the possibility that the number was even higher,"[499] and Božo Prelević [sr], the former MUP minister, estimated there were at least half a million protesters.[500]" (Wikipedia)

The Reuters number was simply taken from the Ministry of Internal Affairs (MUP), which obviously preferred to keep the number low.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

Agreed.

It's at least a very creative stretch from his part to account for his numbers, I could appreciate that. Therefore I found it necessary to shed some light on it, after I saw your input.

And whatever the exact turnout was, it was an incredible inspirational event. Feel bad for the ppl though. About the horrible acts of violence by the Gvment and the use of Sonic booms and such.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

It seems like every time that I read Serbia's population number, it's less than the last time. 30 years of population decline must suck for a society.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

Yes, it will hurt in the medium term because of the ratio of economically active ones, but overpopulation is bad in the long term.

Czech Republic has been compensating low birth rates with immigration. Maybe the factors that cause few people to migrate to Serbia are larger contributors to the "suck" you've been talking about.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 18 hours ago

It is not just the dependency ratio. When your population declines enough, you end up having trouble maintaining all sorts of infrastructure. That is especially bad in rural regions. If your population density falls, that means fewer people have to pay to maintain basically the same length of roads, electricity grid, water system and so forth. Fewer customers leads to shops and restaurants closing. With fewer young people, schools will close making even more young people leave, as it makes raising children that much more difficult. So larger villages and small towns tend to do somewhat fine, but villages end up with pretty much no young people and just die. Even worse with an overall population decline the biggest problems of cities, namely the high cost of housing becomes less of a problem.

It really is not just the dependency ratio, which is a problem. In fact that one is often stable, as old people die.