this post was submitted on 05 Feb 2025
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Gimme cheap, simple and reliable EV with guaranteed 200km range and I'm sold. I don't need bazillion of cameras inside and out, I don't need glass roof, I don't need 200kW of ridiculous power I would never use, I don't need always online maps for a subscription fee and I don't need 20" infotainment, neither I need 3 zone AC with ventilated seats and ballsack massage device, etc. I just want a Dacia of EV market.
Just wondering, what qualifies as cheap for you?
It depends... As our old Ford gave up, I bought used car at the end of 2023. It is Kia Ceed SW, was three and a half years old when I bought it and I paid roughly 14k € for it, which is about my ceiling for a car. Not that I couldn't pay more, but I don't want to as our family doesn't drive that much. Our last car did about 5-10k km a year and this one is no different.
When I was checking BEV at the time there was nothing usable at my price range and area. Couple of used E-Ups, which are too small honestly (that's why we bought SW, trunk is always full of something). Same goes for BMW i3, which is also so hideous my wife said it would be a divorce. Not many E-Golfs, most of them totally abused, and way older than I'd like. Few Renault Zoes, but that's a brand I wouldn't trust with my past experience... There was simply nothing that would make sense. Not sure how it changed during 2024, but my hopes are low.
Microlino, Fiat panda grande, Renault 5, Citroën Ami and others. The smaller and more affordable versions are getting there.
Not a single one of them is available where I live. And once I checked them, they're not really family cars I was hoping for.
Any of those in the US market?
I've only seen Rivians and Teslas in my parts.
You've probably seen a lot more electric vehicles than you realize. Almost every big manufacturer has them in their lineups at this point, just most of them are looking more and more conventional.
Take a look at the Honda Prologue, the Toyota BZ4X, the Kia Niro EV6 or EV9, VW ID.4, Hyundai Ioniq line and Kona, Ford Mach E, Chevy Equinox EV or Blazer EV.
There's also EV versions the F150, Chevy Silverado, and Hummer. Supposedly RAM will have an EV truck soon, too.
Granted there are fewer compact sizes than in European markets, but that's true of all vehicles, regardless of powertrain
There's a lot more, but they don't stand out. Look at cars that don't have a radiator and if course a tailpipe.
Chevy Bolt, except it was discontinued so now nothing…
There’s a little blue Honda EV I see at work. Looks smart as.
VW E-Up is cheap and really good
The fiat 500 e fits all that and it’s a delight to drive.
It's a cool car, yes. Too small for me, but cool as fuck. Used ones are affordable, but it's still 34k € new, which is not cheap at all.
Fair enough on the price. We got a used 2021 for a lot less than that and it’s the perfect car for us. It’s surprisingly spacious inside. This is coming from a 195cm overweight guy.
Do you drive it with family?
We’re only two so I understand we’re in a special situation. Kids would fit fine in the back, but with teenagers and adults it gets a bit tight.
Also, for some perspective, my normal driving position, the seat is somewhere in the middle of the movement range. Not all the way to the back.
So Dacia Spring?
If I was alone, this would be an option. With family, not so much. I've heard horrible stories, struggling to go uphill with 4 people on board, etc. And I live in a hilly area.
Good news everyone!
Oh no!
Coincidentlaly, throwing all this junk out makes EV's significantly lighter. And theoretically cheaper.
They kinda suffer from "the tyranny of the rocket equation" since so much of their mass is "fuel." Make it lighter, and they need less battery for the same range, which means you need even less battery to carry that battery around, lighter motors, less chassis and suspension weight for that, which removes even more battery, and so on.
This is not the case with combustion cars, where much of the engine's mass is fixed and gasoline takes up little weight.
The Aptera coming out follows this principle. It's the only EV that's light enough that the onboard solar panels contribute a significant boost in range.
Do you know where it's at? It was supposed to come to US by 2022, and I'm wondering about Europe...
It's was getting shown off at CES. Plenty of videos on youtube.
Europe would be a different beast regardless. It's expensive to pay for safety testing in one place and those aren't transferable. If you want one in Europe, you might be able to as a private importer maybe? There was one guy who tried that with a Cybertruck and got in trouble. I'm not a lawyer.
That's what I was wondering, thank you! I'm not confident that it will come to Europe and I unfortunately cannot afford to buy a car that won't be commonly supported by garages!
Fully solid-state batteries are just around the corner - some Chinese models already have a semi-solid-state battery, MG are releasing one this year, companies like Toyota and Honda are working on it too. The current use case is to extend range (600+ miles / 1000+ kms) but they could also be used to get similar range as today's cars with a much lighter battery.
Solid state is just around the corner in the same way fusion is. Toyota announced in 2010 they'd have it in prod by 2015, then 2018, then 2020, then 2025 then..."real soon now™ "
The MG "may be a semi solid state"
https://electrek.co/2024/12/16/new-semi-solid-state-battery-ev-launching-2025/
Which is not quite the same thing.
BYD and CATL who have a good track record of delivery are suggesting 2030
TL;DR
Don't wait for solid state, the current battery tech is more than adequate for the majority of people. Holding off for something "perfect" that may never arrive when "good enough" is here diesn't seem logical to me
There's already cars available today with semi solid state batteries: Some by Nio and one by IM.
The article I read about the MG was certain that it'd be solid state. Sorry for the incorrect info.
That's true. The advancement in technology is why I'm leasing my EV (BMW iX) rather than buying it, though.
Ballsack massage device you say...
I had the option but it drove me nuts
Dacia Spring. You're welcome.
Well, I mean a car where I can fit with my wife, two kids, bag of groceries and still drive uphill...
I do that kind of trips with Spring. No problem. It has surprisingly big trunk for groceries and whatnot. If kids are above 3yo it’s all good.
Obviously it’s not a highway monster but for every day trips we usually take this one.