this post was submitted on 29 Jul 2023
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I wish all games would just let you save whenever you want to! Why is using checkpoints and auto saves so common?

At least add a quit and save option if you want to avoid save scumming.

These days I just want to be able to squeeze in some gaming whenever I can even if it's just quick sessions. That's annoyingly hard in games that won't let you save.

I wonder what the reason for this is?

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[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The exploitable argument never made sense to me for single player games. I play Fallout, if I wanted anything and everything with a 100ft tall character, every companion, and infinite health. But of course I don't do any of that because it would ruin my own fun.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I get what you're saying, but save scumming is a pretty easy trap to fall into.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

@[email protected]

I agree, though I think part of why that is is that so few games make failure interesting. The only one I can think of that truly accomplished making failure compelling is Disco Elysium.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I'm perfectly fine with it being a setting you can disable, but I do personally strongly prefer a game to enforce some kind of save restriction.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Again, I see the desire to savescum as a symptom more than anything else. If you find yourself reaching for the quickload button, it's because the game didn't make it interesting enough to keep going despite something going wrong.

This is at least the case for choice-based situations, where it's incredibly common for there to be an "optimal route" and for the alternative or failure-state to be much inferior in both rewards and enjoyment.

For games where overcoming a challenge is the primary experience, such a beating a Dark Souls boss, then sure. Being able to quicksave at the start of each phase of a boss would be bad since the point is to overcome the challenge of managing to scrape through the entire fight.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

I think that's a matter of preference. I don't think many video games have good writing (even compared to a lot of casual popular "beach read" type books), so I get my story telling from however many audiobooks I can squeeze into 2x 40-50 hours a week. I want challenges in games and I want distinct fail states to punish failure.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The issue from a design perspective is that many players have a tendency to optimise the fun out of the games they play. Meaning that if there is a fun thing to do that you carefully made for them to enjoy but there's an unfun thing to do that wasn't the point but is a slightly more effective strategy, many players will find themselves drawn to do the unfun thing and hate playing the game, whereas if they had only had the option to do the fun thing, they would have done, wouldn't have cared in the slightest about the lack of a hypothetical better strategy not existing and loved the time they spent with the game.

Good game design always has to meet people where they are and attempt to ensure they have a great experience with the game irrespective of how they might intuitively approach it.

So... Not having ways for players to optimise all the fun out of their own experience is an important thing to consider.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm this person and god do I wish I wasn't, sometimes. So many games have been way less interesting than they could've been for me because for me, fun is learning to play the game well. I'm not sure what frustrates me more, the way people who don't have that attitude say "I play games to have fun" as if I don't, or me looking at the recent LoZ games as failures design-wise because they're too easy to cheese.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I definitely lean this way too, though I've become better able to step away from that mindset in games I want to enjoy without it.

I think part of what has helped for me is, having an awareness of that tendency, I now try to actively feed or restrict it.

IE, I play a lot of games where that is the intended fun experience. Stuff like Magnum Opus (or any Zachtronic's title), Slay the Spire (or other roguelikes), Overwatch (or other competitive games) are all designed from the ground up for the fun to be in playing the game at the highest level of execution possible (some more mechanically others more intellectually.) I try to make sure I'm playing something like that if I feel like I'm at all likely to want to scratch that optimisation itch with that gaming session.

Otherwise, when playing games where that isn't really the point, I find it easier to engage with the intended experience knowing that if I want to do the optimisation thing I could switch to something that is much more satisfying for that, but I also try to optimise how well I do the thing the game wants. If it's a roleplaying game, I might try to challenge myself to most perfectly do as the character would actually do, rather than what I might do, or what the mechanics of the game might incentivise me to do. Often that can actually lead to more challenging gameplay too as you are restricting yourself to making the less mechanically optimal choices because you've challenged yourself to only do so where it aligns with the character.