this post was submitted on 26 Dec 2024
68 points (71.2% liked)
Technology
60265 readers
3319 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I think that we are all speaking without being able to read the paper (and in my case, I know I wouldn't understand it), so I think dismissing it outright without knowing how they are defining things or measuring them is not really the best course here.
I would suggest that Caltech studies don't tend to be poorly-done.
There is literally nothing the paper could say and no evidence they could provide to make the assertion in the title anything less than laughable.
There are hundreds of systems in your brain that are actively processing many, many orders of magnitude more than ten bits of information per second all the time. We can literally watch them do so.
It's possible the headline is a lie by someone who doesn't understand the research. It's not remotely within the realm of plausibility that it resembles reality in any way.
That is quite the claim from someone who has apparently not even read the abstract of the paper. I pasted it in the thread.
It doesn't matter what it says.
A word is more than 10 bits on its own.
You know, dismissing a paper without even taking a minute to read the abstract and basing everything on a headline to claim it's all nonsense is not a good look. I'm just saying.
The point is that it's literally impossible for the headline to be anything but a lie.
I don't need to dig further into a headline that claims cell towers cause cancer because of deadly cell signal radiation, and that's far less deluded than this headline is.
The core concept is entirely incompatible with even a basic understanding of information theory or how the brain works.
(But I did read the abstract, not knowing it's the abstract because it's such nonsensical babble. It makes it even worse.)
Again, refusing to even read the abstract when it has been provided for you because you've already decided the science is wrong without evaluating anything but a short headline is not a good look.
In fact, it is the sort of thing that people who claim cell towers cause cancer are famous for doing themselves.
The headline is completely incompatible with multiple large bodies of scientific evidence. It's the equivalent of claiming gravity doesn't exist. Dismissing obvious nonsense is a necessary part of filtering the huge amount of information available.
But I did read the abstract and it makes the headline look reasonable by comparison.
I don't suppose it would be worth asking if your professional field was neurology...
Argument to authority doesn't strengthen your argument.
A piece of paper is not a prerequisite to the extremely basic level of understanding it takes to laugh at this.
So essentially what you are saying is that you have no expertise in neurology and have not read the paper or evaluated any of the data or the methodology and yet, despite all of that, you know for certain that it is wrong.
Please explain your certainty. And if you appeal to "common sense," please note that common sense is why people thought the sun orbited the Earth for thousands of years.
No, I am saying that I do have a meaningful working knowledge of how the brain works, and information theory, beyond the literal surface level it would take to understand that the headline is bullshit.
You don't need to be a Nobel prize winning physicist to laugh at a paper claiming gravity is impossible. This headline is that level. Literally just processing a word per second completely invalidates it, because an average vocabulary of 20k means that every word, by itself, is ~14 bits of information.
You are already not using 'bit' the way it is defined in the paper. Again, not a good look.
The paper is not entitled to redefine a scientific term to be completely incorrect.
A bit is a bit.
From a cursory glance it seems at least quite close to the definition of a bit in relation to entropy, also known as a shannon.
If it's not re-defining the term then I'm using it like the paper is defining it.
Because just understanding words to respond to them, ignoring all the sub-processes that are also part of "thought" and directly impact both your internal narration and your actual behavior, takes more than 10 bits of information to manage. (And yeah I do understand that each word isn't actually equally likely as I used to provide a number in my rough version, but they also require your brain to handle far more additional context than just the information theory "information" of the word itself.)
And now it's "it's the paper's fault it's wrong because it defined a term the way I didn't want it defined."
Yes.
Science is built on a shared, standardized base of knowledge. Laying claim to a standard term to mean something entirely incompatible with the actual definition makes your paper objectively incorrect and without merit.
Cool. Let me know when you feel like reading the paper since Aatube already showed you they are using it properly. Or at least admitting you might not know as much about this as you think you do...