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S.F. tech founder says 84-hour workweek approach is ‘because I’m San Franciscan’
(www.sfchronicle.com)
this post was submitted on 04 Dec 2024
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So that's the equivalent of 60k-100k at a job where you can work normal hours. I could see this maybe if he was paying more than twice the market rate for more than twice the normal amount of work, but he's not. Not even close.
Thats below market for a 40hr week in San Francisco for a software dev. From levels.fyi, which allows people to confirm their employment anonymously:
Town is wildly overpriced, and hes paying about 1/4th what he should be for 84 hrs/week.
And people wonder why I don't move to work at these big tech hubs. I have lots of tech jobs in my area and most of them expect normal hours. As it turns out, I rarely work more than 40 hours, and most weeks I'm around 35.
This isn't the only guy hiring in SF. By and large the pay seems really good for below average effort.
Cost of living is insane though, and there's way too much traffic for my liking, which would really impact my quality of life.
I make around what the OP is talking about, work less than half as much, and my COL is way lower. I'll just travel to CA if I feel like it, but I'm not interested in moving.
That's a larger equation, and it sounds like it totally makes sense for you. I've been working remote to SF for 15 years and made the same choice you did. That experience has also let me see that the comp to effort ratio there is very very good.
How's the remote pay? I was under the impression that you get your pay adjusted based on where you live, so you wouldn't make SF money of you live elsewhere.
I did the math a while ago and I could probably make $100k or so more if I move there, but that would go almost entirely to COL and taxes, and I'd have to put up with SF traffic as well. And I have kids, so I'm unwilling to commute there (e.g. fly there for the weekdays).
I've worked on site there (my company partnered with Facebook for a project, so I hung out with one of their teams), and I really didn't like it. But I've heard a lot of people like it, so do what works I guess. My in-laws keep trying to convince me to move to SoCal, but that's worse than SF to me.
Don’t take this idiot’s little company as the norm for the area. San Francisco scene is pretty chill.
That's good to know.
I figure I could probably find a good fit over there, but I honestly don't like the area that much (mostly traffic and costs of things). Other people may not be as bothered by that though, so it could be a good fit.
There are good and bad employers everywhere.
I used to take the BART train to work In SF so traffic wasn’t a concern. Now I don’t commute at all!
But I’m not trying to convince you to move here. Please don’t!
And I'd say the same about my area. Glad you like it. 😀
I’m actually a native so my whole life is here. It’s more to me than a “what’s the cost of living and what’s the crime rate” calculation like so many seem to make when choosing a place to call home.
Ah but is this somewhere I have even thought about moving? ;D One nice thing about the SF Bay is that it draws interesting people from all over, and friends and family tend to stick around more often than other places I’ve lived. The “great California exodus” is all the rage in people’s minds this year but I have lived in a couple of places that everybody eventually moved away from if they could.
Idk, maybe? I'm near SLC, which has gorgeous mountains and excellent skiing, and wonderful national parks a short drive away.
I do enjoy Utah but could never live with the beer there :D
They lifted the stupid alcohol limit for grocery store beer, so that part of the problem is solved.
Oh yay that’s something.
Yup. Still have a BAC limit of 0.05, but hey, we're at least out of the stone age.
I don't drink, so it doesn't bother me, but I have plenty of coworkers who were happy for the change. Next step, allow wine to be sold in grocery stores so you can buy holiday drinks on holidays...
I once bought a bottle of wine at the old state store. I was on a road trip with my gf at the time and oh boy did those ladies at the counter glare at us like we were degenerates! There are worse things than being tight about alcohol, I guess.
Years later I proposed to my now wife in Bryce Canyon. We were staying in Kanab, which was a delightful little spot. Greyhound owners meetup was going on at the time so there were adorable dogs everywhere. Nice UT memories.
Yeah, people here can certainly be judgy. But I'm guessing that was quite a while ago, things have improved a lot since then.
And Bryce Canyon is gorgeous. We went there on our honeymoon because we only had a few days, and I'm excited to take my kids there in the near future. It's pretty far away from the highway, so I'm glad you were able to visit. Most visitors tend to stick to Zion or Arches, but there are so many other pretty parks here, and they're gorgeous year round (I think Bryce is extra pretty in the winter).
Its also San Fran, where you'll lose all that money on COL.
If you get FAANG-tier money in SF, you don't lose it all to CoL. You definitely make it out ahead.
Sure, but $120k is definitely not FAANG-tier base comp in SF. Not even close. Maybe it’s on the low side of scrappy startup/scaleup comp.
Agreed, if you're going to be taking home 120k you're not going to get out ahead in SF.
It’s important to recognize that this is a tiny little company.
The founder can pick up lunch for everyone. So we’re talking what, 8 people?
There are 8 people out there who have nothing in their lives except for work and want their job to feel like a life. They get some kind of thrill from the intensity and they have probably been sold a dream about what their stock options will be worth when the company makes it big on the AI boom. They’re young, single, socially orthogonal people and their home lives were probably desolate and depressing before they took this job. The job gives them a place they can always go and find other people, where they have something to do. I’m not excusing the horrible WLB but I can easily imagine a small number of people who go for this. We just have to remember how miserable much of humanity are.
We don’t have to generalize about capitalism, San Francisco, tech, or anything else from this guy. Not that you were but others ITT certainly are.
84 fucking hours. If I worked 12 hours a day, every day, I wouldn't hit 84 hours unless I literally never had a single day off! That dude can eat my entire ass...
The fact that he ever gets through that interview without the candidate laughing themself right out of his office is just baffling.