this user is a mod of a huge .world news community btw
this post was submitted on 26 Nov 2024
230 points (91.4% liked)
Lefty Memes
4407 readers
410 users here now
An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the "ML" influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.
Serious posts, news, and discussion go in c/Socialism.
If you are new to socialism, you can ask questions and find resources over on c/Socialism101.
Please don't forget to help keep this community clean by reporting rule violations, updooting good contributions and downdooting those of low-quality!
Rules
0. Only post socialist memes
That refers to funny image macros and means that generally videos and screenshots are not allowed. Exceptions include explicitly humorous and short videos, as well as (social media) screenshots depicting a funny situation, joke, or joke picture relating to socialist movements, theory, societal issues, or political opponents. Examples would be the classic case of humorous Tumblr or Twitter posts/threads. (and no, agitprop text does not count as a meme)
1. Socialist Unity in the form of mutual respect and good faith interactions is enforced here
Try to keep an open mind, other schools of thought may offer points of view and analyses you haven't considered yet. Also: This is not a place for the Idealism vs. Materialism or rather Anarchism vs. Marxism debate(s), for that please visit c/AnarchismVsMarxism.
2. Anti-Imperialism means recognizing capitalist states like Russia and China as such
That means condemning (their) imperialism, even if it is of the "anti-USA" flavor.
3. No liberalism, (right-wing) revisionism or reactionaries.
That includes so called: Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism, Dengism, Market Socialism, Patriotic Socialism, National Bolshevism, Anarcho-Capitalism etc. . Anti-Socialist people and content have no place here, as well as the variety of "Marxist"-"Leninists" seen on lemmygrad and more specifically GenZedong (actual ML's are welcome as long as they agree to the rules and don't just copy paste/larp about stuff from a hundred years ago).
4. No Bigotry.
The only dangerous minority is the rich.
5. Don't demonize previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
We must constructively learn from their mistakes, while acknowledging their achievements and recognizing when they have strayed away from socialist principles.
(if you are reading the rules to apply for modding this community, mention "Mantic Minotaur" when answering question 2)
6. Don't idolize/glorify previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
Notable achievements in all spheres of society were made by various socialist/people's/democratic republics around the world. Mistakes, however, were made as well: bureaucratic castes of parasitic elites - as well as reactionary cults of personality - were established, many things were mismanaged and prejudice and bigotry sometimes replaced internationalism and progressiveness.
- Absolutely no posts or comments meant to relativize(/apologize for), advocate, promote or defend:
- Racism
- Sexism
- Queerphobia
- Ableism
- Classism
- Rape or assault
- Genocide/ethnic cleansing or (mass) deportations
- Fascism
- (National) chauvinism
- Orientalism
- Colonialism or Imperialism (and their neo- counterparts)
- Zionism
- Religious fundamentalism of any kind
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
It makes perfect sense, if you don't think of Muslims as people.
I don't see why they need to not have Muslims there though. Ok, so this is where you wanna be, all good, but if someone else wants to be there too you kinda need to let them..I think that's where the problem is, it's not Israel, it's that Israel isn't sharing.
there are claims that the Arabs there were brought in from Egypt to work in the region in the 20th century, or something. In other words, they claim that Palestinians are actually Egyptian and from other neighboring states, and have only been living there for a century or so.
“i’m so sorry sir but your family has only lived in this household for checks notes 100 years and three generations. yeah so you are basically immigrants sorry, you understand why i have to bulldoze everything you own.”
This doesn't say anything about Islam, way to wiggle in a non-related fact though.
Did you know that things can be implied through omission?
Ignoring that people were already living there says all it needs to.
They always shared the land with other peoples as well. They were there before, during and after.
You say that, but "sharing the land with the Palestinian people" and "making sure they're all dead so you don't have to share it" are two entirely different things.
Which of those is the nation of Israel currently working towards?
They're definitely trying, yeah. I'm holding out hope they won't succeed, but maybe that's misplaced.
I'm Palestinian, and both me and most other Palestinians around me have lost their beliefs in Palestine surviving. Neither the Gaza strip nor the West Bank.
I thank you for your hope, and I'm still boycotting whatever I can but that's just how it is
I think they were referring to the native population of the area before the Israeli colonization project began.
You're going to have your mind blown when you find out that Islam came out of judism. There was a time when there were many jews and literally not a single Muslim on the planet. Christianity and Islam are groups of x-jews that murdered, raped and destroyed anything in their path. They pushed jews out of the land. I know this is all impossible to you because in your made-up world, nothing existed before the 1940s. That's just what happens when you are so against learning, it puts you into wacky made uo worlds that make no sense. The thing you hate is the thing you defend, you just can't be bothered to look at things from a deformed and chopped up world view. It makes sense, complexity takes effort.
My take: the history is indeed complicated. Christians and Muslims throughout history have been fucking awful. To each other. To themselves. To Jews. Historically speaking, probably the best of those relations was between Muslims and Jews who lived in lands ruled by Islamic dynasties.
It's not exactly right to say that Christians and Muslims "are groups of x-jews" though. Because those religions are both proselytising religions, while Judaism is not. The vast majority of Christians and Muslims are not descended from Jews, or perhaps have only the tiniest amount of Jewish heritage waaay back. Because they or their ancestors were converts not from Judaism but from paganism or other people not "of the book" (as the Quran puts it).
Regardless, none of this is relevant. What's relevant is that apartheid and genocide are bad. No matter who does it. It would be bad if Anglo Saxons did it to Indian immigrants in 2000, but would be equally bad if Indians gained the power to do it to Anglo Saxons. It would be bad if Celtic Britons did it to Anglo Saxons in 500, and equally bad if Celtic Britons were to do it to Anglo Saxons. It's bad when Ashkenazi (i.e., recent immigrants of a European background, who make up the majority of the political elite of Israel) Jews do it to Palestinians.
(person is ofc permabanned)
image description:
This would be way funnier (and more historically accurate...though still not exactly accurate) if it was a chicken instead of a monitor.
It's so interesting how the most condescending people always see facts as condescending. It really just is the case that you can be wrong. As you get older and learn to not mindlessly repeat headlines you will see just how absurd you used to be.
- Judges 21:8-14
Emphasis mine.
Funny thing is, I can read old books too. And history shows that we all come from shitty people who murdered, raped, and ethnically cleansed the weak who stood in our way, be it for loot, ‘manifest destiny’, land, religious/racial purity, or just because sometimes.
Just because you’re looking at it from your lens and filter of bias does not make that exclusively true.
gross! crazy to write this
humans lives are actually more important than preserving random human race lore structures from millennia ago
like it’s still okay to respect and pay homage to them, but as soon as the existing generation ticks over and people have lived their entire lives and built thriving communities for one another, it’s bad actually to use that lore to excuse killing and displacing them. nasty.
You are preaching to the choir. All this madness goes away when people quit convincing their children that Israel is some magical land that a space daddy wants everyone to fight over to they get special toys after they die. You want this to end, then start spreading the fact that it is all BS and magic land isn't actually a thing.
if i’m preaching to the choir then the choir is bringing up twisted and irrelevant arguments and it’s pissing me off
Choirs suck anyway. Orchestral music is where it's at.
but eric whitacre :(
You could always give this a go.
but but the seal lullaby :(
Ah yes, the very differentiated worldview of "Christianity and Islam are groups of x-jews that murdered, raped and destroyed anything in their path."
The reality of it is that the abrahamic religions have all always had a militaristic bend to them because of their “our god is the only right god” belief.
The Jewish people were this way before Christian’s and Muslims existed.
Then the Jewish and Christian’s were this way before Muslims existed.
Then the Jewish and Christian and Muslims were this way when they all existed.
Shockingly the uniting thread between all three is HUMANITY and TRIBALISM.
Oh I won't pretend there hasn't been a lot of violence in the name of religion. I was just annoyed by the the wining about undercomplex worldviews combined with this absolute unit of a broad brush in the same comment.
Oh my guy the person you’re responding to initially is a moron, I’m not arguing against you by any means
I know, sorry for the confrontational tone :)
This is... I have no idea what to say. That said, you do know that the Middle East was a safe haven for Jews during the Middle ages right?
Powerful stuff.
What is the dominant religion of the people killed and displaced by "Israelis"?
And a follow-up: are you learning this for th4 fi4st time?
I'm just willing to look at history beyond some arbitrary point to try to win an argument. You are absolutely correct, if you ignore the parts of the past that don't agree with your pre-conceived notions, then you are right. Unfortunately for you, history doesn't care about where you choose to make arbitrary lines.
You'll notice you did not answer either question, O Great Context Appreciator Who Dares Not Mention Context.
Me being willing to look at the entire context is not a bad thing. Sorry if it doesn't line up with the headlines you were told to memorize.
lmao what context you aren't actually saying anything other than being evasive after flinging shit.
Can you answer my questions? Are you afraid to do so?
I guess "palestinians as people" would be more accurate
Non related? Give me a break