this post was submitted on 26 Oct 2024
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More than 100 Arizona Palestinian, Arab, Muslim, and progressive Democrats and community leaders have signed a letter making the case for those reluctant to support Kamala Harris against Donald Trump.

“We know that many in our communities are resistant to vote for Kamala Harris because of the Biden administration’s complicity in the genocide,” the letter, published Thursday night, reads.

“Some of us have lost many family members in Gaza and Lebanon. We respect those who feel they simply can’t vote for a member of the administration that sent the bombs that may have killed their loved ones,” the letter continued. “As we consider the full situation carefully, however, we conclude that voting for Kamala Harris is the best option for the Palestinian cause and all of our communities.”

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

The first point - Your previous comments made it seem as though you were saying only people in such position held that opinion. Whether you meant to or not.

I moved here about 7 years ago. There are not many great places to get a good variety of foods here, without driving to one of two close, bigger, cities. There is, however, a healthy community from the middle east, a lot of which happen to be Palestinian, due to a history of taking refugees, and other political outreach actions over the past 50 years, or so. Though that tide has changed in the past ~20 years. So, having a hobby of cooking, I found myself at their stores, a lot. They got to know me, we discussed food, they invited me to classes that teach cultural practices, and history, cooking being the most popular. I started attending their cooking classes.

This lead to a conversation where I mentioned that, in one of the close, larger cities, I have a cousin who is a civil rights lawyer, who is in a firm that specializes in immigration. This community, naturally, has a lot of connections to people living in this city. So I got a stack of business cards, and gave them to a number of people, who largely own local businesses, to hand out, in case they know people, in that city, that needs, or may need, legal help with immigration matters. This lead to me being more, and more, in discussion, with that community, about political issues. I also have volunteered help to a couple organizations that work with marginalized demographics, which lead to me handing out business cards of representatives of these organizations. This ingratiated me with a bunch of people. So I started attending their out reach program. I also began to attend their community meeting they hold at a local mosques, and theater one family owns. I offer a number of voluntary services. to these groups, on occasion. Mostly IT work.

Then the genocide started. I have worked with people to design billboards for the issue. I have canvassed for them. I have been generally active, and helpful, as I can. There is an organization here called CAIR, it is national, I assume you know who they are. Through this exposure I have been around a number of this community large enough, to be the vast majority, locally, at one time or another. I have sat in meetings and listened to them talking. I have seen where they decide to apply their donated funds to take political action. I have a friend who translates discussions to english for me. There isn't a huge group that are hard line on the idea of staying out of voting, in the presidential election, totally. A lot of those that are, discuss how white Americans have to participate, and while they will stand out, they urge that, if you are going to vote, vote for Harris. The reasons I have been given for this, is simple, while no party is good for them, and the US immigration practices are most often hostile, unlike the people you know, they saw a very noticeable increase of activity from the government, against their community, when Trump put forth his anti-muslim sentiment. My cousin's law firm says they experienced a large spike in cases during that time, as well, particularly ones that the government "lost" (as in it was deemed illegal/unconstitutional, but too late now, and no one was punished). One of the big, specific, things they discuss is that long term, established, people, in their community, started to be targeted, where as, previously, their was no question about their immigration status, or position as Americans. They saw a lot more prying into who they were related to, arbitrary contact with individuals, etc. They saw a lot more of these people being taken by ICE, and deported. As the situation has gotten more desperate they have been using their local businesses to reach out to non-middle eastern customers, and some have literally been putting pamphlets, explaining the situation, in their bag, as they check them out. Don't get me wrong, they don't like Harris. They see one that is not backing off selling weapons to Israel, and the other is vowing to take an active role in accelerating the genocide, so they are either voting the former, or suggesting that other Americans do so, because they are in the extreme of the rock and a hard place analogy. There is no good choice, there is only the possibility of, some level of, harm reduction.

There is more, but I have explained enough of my personal life, for you to get the picture.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago

The first point - Your previous comments made it seem as though you were saying only people in such position held that opinion. Whether you meant to or not.

I don't think they did. I think you read it into it because you had a defensive response.

[Your story]

Thank you for contributing to and working with your community and thank you for sharing.

Then the genocide started. I have worked with people to design billboards for the issue. I have canvassed for them. I have been generally active, and helpful, as I can. There is an organization here called CAIR, it is national, I assume you know who they are.

Yes of course. It is a weak organization. I was curious to see if they had any recent news and looked at their website. They are hosting a gala in November at which Jamaal Bowman, who voted for the iron dome, will be present. I'm sure he is there because he was targeted due to even just taking a (late) milquetoast stance against Israel and then losing due to AIPAC, having abandoned any grassroots organizer-based strategy. CAIR has been largely excised from my local community because they compromise too heavily in exchange for nothing and are a vehicle for exactly the NGO climber types I've mentioned before. The community watches their people leave and then turn their backs. Of course, they do not say this very publicly, as family is important, but when having individual conversations, so many are happy that their kids are getting paid well but are unhappy that they spend their time with such groups.

I am returning to this point because it is important. These types of organizations are easily coopted and defanged, and they follow a single trajectory given their funding models and staffing methods. They split a community into those in them and those without, and those within them have a different interest and begin to socialize with the insiders. Even an org like CAIR, which is outside the mainstream of political discourse at least half the time, is impacted by this and sets its sights low and uses ineffectual methods of advocacy.

Through this exposure I have been around a number of this community large enough, to be the vast majority, locally, at one time or another. I have sat in meetings and listened to them talking. I have seen where they decide to apply their donated funds to take political action. I have a friend who translates discussions to english for me. There isn’t a huge group that are hard line on the idea of staying out of voting, in the presidential election, totally.

For clarity, you mentioned business cards many times. When you say community, do you mean a wide community of everyday people, or mostly business owners, heads of NGOs, and maybe imams?

A lot of those that are, discuss how white Americans have to participate, and while they will stand out, they urge that, if you are going to vote, vote for Harris.

"A lot" can mean 3 or 7 or 50. There are, of course, some people who advocate for this. But the idea that they are even outnumbered by those opposed it completely alien to my experience and, if you don't believe that to be enough (as you have your own experience), it is also in disagreement with the polls, including those done by CAIR!

The reasons I have been given for this, is simple, while no party is good for them, and the US immigration practices are most often hostile, unlike the people you know, they saw a very noticeable increase of activity from the government, against their community, when Trump put forth his anti-muslim sentiment.

They are currently the worst they have been since 9/11, per the very nice and opinionated uncles my community. It goes in waves.

My cousin’s law firm says they experienced a large spike in cases during that time, as well, particularly ones that the government “lost” (as in it was deemed illegal/unconstitutional, but too late now, and no one was punished).

What does your cousin say about now, the last year? Are you near any college campuses or places where actions take place? The current islamophobia is focused on targeting those who take actions resisting the genocide, generally targeted by Zionists with doxxing and harassment that they leverage into calls for expulsions and deportations. While fascists are often doing this, people that present themselves as liberals also do so.

One of the big, specific, things they discuss is that long term, established, people, in their community, started to be targeted, where as, previously, their was no question about their immigration status, or position as Americans. They saw a lot more prying into who they were related to, arbitrary contact with individuals, etc. They saw a lot more of these people being taken by ICE, and deported.

This did not stop under Biden, in my area. There is still constant fear.

As the situation has gotten more desperate they have been using their local businesses to reach out to non-middle eastern customers, and some have literally been putting pamphlets, explaining the situation, in their bag, as they check them out.

It reeeally sounds like you mostly talk to business owners.

Don’t get me wrong, they don’t like Harris. They see one that is not backing off selling weapons to Israel, and the other is vowing to take an active role in accelerating the genocide

This is foolish, of course, as the Biden-Harris administration is actively doing the genocide and they are extremely competent at ensuring its continuation at full steam. Israel is already doing, more or less, whatever it wants outside of implied restraints on how to attacks Iran. This is why the position you present is a minority position among both Palestinian Americans and the wider muslim community.

so they are either voting the former, or suggesting that other Americans do so, because they are in the extreme of the rock and a hard place analogy. There is no good choice, there is only the possibility of, some level of, harm reduction.

There is a good choice. You vociferously oppose the genocide and have discipline.

Those interested in electoralism often talk about "accountability" and "pushing" for things. This is the chance to test that theory. If a person will still vote for a genocider candidate, what does accountability mean to them? Nothing, of course.

Re: harm reduction, again, this is the administration doing the genocide, supporting it to the hilt. There is no harm reduction here, it is full-steam-ahead genocide. These are bog standard Dem PR talking points, not the common positions of real people affected by this.

There is more, but I have explained enough of my personal life, for you to get the picture.

To be honest I'm not sure why you're sharing so much of your personal life, though it is nice of you to do so. I think it would be good for you to share less information, for your own security.