this post was submitted on 21 Oct 2024
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politics
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I think this is balanced and fair. I don't think they demonstrated any supremely shitty opinions, i.e. racism, bigotry, but their presence was incredibly annoying and they didn't really participate in useful conversations and moreso used the reply box as a soapbox to say a lot of nonsense.
Moreover, I think banning until the election shows an understanding and restraint by the administration team that is commendable.
Yeah, the typical line crossers, racism, bigotry, hatred, genocide denial, etc. get you on the fast track to a ban and they avoided all of that.
....intentionally.
That's why moderation sometimes requires judgment calls. When someone is intentionally avoiding whatever the moderation cut off seems to be, then it's clear their participation is intentionally as provocative as possible without triggering enforcement. In that case it's the user playing the mod team against the rest of the community because they know your boundaries and can weaponize them to "win."
I think it's troublesome that there's more firm enforcement against any kind of "denialism" and "bigotry" than there is for demonstrably antagonistic behavior. Lemmy is veering too strongly toward curating a list of acceptable opinions and too far away from enforcing civility standards, if you ask me. That's a surefire way to create an ironclad left-leaning echo chamber.
Well, it's always been left leaning, look at .ml ;)
And decisions to take a more punitive approach to the expression of certain opinions and beliefs than to shitty, antagonistic behavior will ensure that never changes.
Genocide denialism and bigotry are WAY worse than just being uncivil. I'm fine with a chamber that doesn't allow bigotry. If you think that makes it left-leaning, that says a lot more about the right than "free speech".
My point is they shouldn't allow either. The only thing worse is using a double standard, because it prioritizes assholes you agree with over polite users you don't.
There's no hypocrisy in saying worse things are worse. That's not a double standard. Bigotry isn't an "opinion" and assholes of any stripe are better than people who engage in it. A lot of the people talking to Monk were assholes (that the majority agreed with), but I don't get the impression you wish moderation had been stricter on them.
I challenge that the definition of "bigotry" is as broad as each individual wants to make it, and the kit gloves with which trollish behavior is consistently moderated differ significantly from the approach taken to a very broad definition of "bigoted" opinions, which regularly invite heavy reprimands. As long as the definition of "bigotry" is rigorously defined, I don't necessarily disagree with you. As I see things, it isn't.
And yes, much of this could have been avoided if the people attacking Monk had been held to a higher standard of acceptable behavior. That is exactly the argument I'm making. None of that crap should have been allowed to spiral out of control.
I would argue exactly the opposite.
First of all, fuck "civility" rules, which in my experience (back on Reddit) tend to result in polite bad faith comments (sealioning etc.) being tolerated while comments calling out bad faith for the toxic behavior it is get removed.
Second, facts are not opinions, and it's hardly Lemmy's fault if Colbert was correct about reality's bias.
You're commenting on a thread about a user whose polite, bad faith sealioning was tolerated for months, and whose spamming behavior is the only thing that triggered meaningful enforcement. If that's what you're concerned about, you should be in favor of more heavy handed moderation of obviously disingenuous "politeness".
I think sealioning is patently uncivil behavior, no matter the veneer of geniality. I just think that Lemmy hasn't quite figured out how to strike a balance between moderators enforcing truth and moderators enforcing good behavior.