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The kids are alright.
A side effect of me being terminally online is that you can predict the top comment of some posts
Young women are alright, right wing support amongst <35 y.o. men is surprisingly high...
Agreed. I'm a teacher and see it in my classrooms. I often feel that they're not taught how to have healthy community, so they become lil fascists...
They know this shit isn't working, so they're siding with the ones who give them someone to blame... It's that simple....
If they're like my nephew, the "manosphere" gives them easy answers as to why everything seems to suck.
Tell your nephew that Trump just said he’ll ban video games if he wins.
It's also the only answer. Society has really neglected boys for a long time now.
Yup. Patriarchy did them dirty. Society told them they had to be strong, stoic, and without emotion. And when that butted up against the realities of being a human we didn't have any community to lead them towards living a good and healthy life.
Patriarchy did em dirty, but feminism also left them behind. It's not just patriarchal society that forces men to be strong and stoic, it's also self-professed feminists, especially women. Feminists say men should be more in touch with their emotions, but when they do so women have no interest in them. That's one of the realities of life you mentioned.
You need to hang out with better women, my man.
See? Dismissive, refusal to acknowledge systemic issues, rugged individualism. That's holdovers from patriarchy and feminists should reject that thought process.
When women have a problem, it is society's fault and we should fix it. When men have a problem, it's their own fault and they individually should fix it. That's not fair, and the fact that no one in the feminist sphere seems to give a shit leaves young men deciding to turn to misogynists for moral support.
Red pill types will say, "we see you. This is a problem. You're not crazy." That's very powerful when there's no alternative.
You have a lot more sympathy for right-wing incels than you do for people who don't support genocide.
Jernersayd
#onejoke for Russian shills
We've talked about your singular love for genocide multiple times in the past. In the context of your hatred for feminism and your sympathy for incels, you truly are the voice of centrism.
Personally, I find my experience to be much the opposite. But, I'm also in my late thirties so, experiences may differ.
That's still patriarchy, my guy. They've been raised to be complicit in a system that doesn't benefit them, and they're perpetuating it because they don't like how it feels to step outside of it.
I disagree that it's fair to call that patriarchy, but that's beside the point. The failure of feminists to take any action against it or even to sound like they care is what I was getting at. That is by definition not patriarchy, it's the indifference of feminism.
Feminism may not be directly attacking men, but it's also not helping men except as an occasional side effect of helping women. Men have no acceptable paradigm to help them navigate society.
Any attempt at "Men's theory" or some such gets simultaneously attacked by feminists and misogynists and quickly gets subsumed into one of those two camps.
Bro, you're almost there...
Get me over the finish line then.
He/she already tried.
All I see is "everything bad is patriarchy, everything good is feminism" and a steadfast avoidance of the specific issue I brought up.
The expectations the feminists have, are a part of the patriarchy is what I'm guessing they're trying to say, so it's ultimately still the fault of broader patriarchy. I guess what you're effectively saying is that Feminists are affected by patriarchy too I guess, which is obvious given they're human and most humans aren't perfect.
I mean dude think about it. You are almost literally saying that any bad things feminists do are because of the patriarchy. Any failings in feminist theory is because of patriarchy. Any lack of concern for men, any failure to worry about the lack of concern for men, it's all patriarchy.
Does that really ring true to you? I mean, if patriarchy is such a nebulous thing that it's subconsciously affecting the very things that feminists choose to worry about...then we should be able to lay all of feminism's successes at the feet of patriarchy too, right? Women's sufferage? Patriarchy. Freedom of choice? Patriarchy. Women in the workplace? Patriarchy. You may think it was feminism, but clearly the invisible guiding hand of patriarchy is influencing feminists.
Or is it only patriarchy when it's something bad?
Look, I'm not saying there's no such thing as patriarchy. Or misogyny. I absolutely believe that there are systemic injustices in the world perpetrated against women en masse. I also believe that our historically patriarchal society has caused a level of male-centric bias in our world.
I object to the complete and total failure of feminism to admit to any negative effects whatsoever. Feminism is not self-reflective and therefore can never be egalitarian. It will always be a struggle for one group against another.
I think it does ring true. I think you can also say that, in a way, feminism successes do come from patriarchy, that is to say-
It is built upon patriarchy, through the analysis, critique and solutions offered by feminists to it.
What you are critiquing is the hypocrisy and personal individual failings of feminists, which is valid, but is another problem entirely I feel.
Perhaps you are saying these hypocrises and personal individual failings affect alot more feminists than feminists themselves would like to admit? Or perhaps that these hypocrises and personal individual failings have poisoned feminism and it's touted ideals? That feminists who fail in these ways affect the ideology of feminism and that THIS feminism, the "feminism of hypocrites" is what now pervades majority feminist thought?
No, I'm saying that of the list of things feminists are concerned about - wage gap, abortion access, burden of child rearing, intersectional issues - no where on that list is any bad things feminists do. I'm not saying it's systemic (I do happen to believe that, but it's irrelevant at the moment), I'm just saying it happens enough that feminism should be worried about it, at least a little. That lack of concern is damning.
It's like having one abusive cop in a department. Ok, there's one bad cop and 99 good ones, but the 99 good ones are not denouncing him. They are protecting him. So in a way, you have 100 bad cops. If the 99 cops were denouncing him, refusing to work with him, petitioning the police union to disown him, etc...that would be fine. But they never do.
Individual women being shitty is individual women being shitty. Feminism refusing to admit it has a problem in its ranks is feminism being shitty.
If a woman tells a man to having emotions isn't manly then they're not acting as a feminist. That, by definition, is an idea that comes to us from the religious, moral, and civic tradition that produced the modern patriarchy. The people, men and women, who say and do things that reflect and maintain those ideas are failing the ideals of feminism.
To use an analogy, North Korea calls itself a democracy. They do not elect a leader. That doesn't mean democracy has failed, just that this country is doing anti democratic things.
You can fault the Right for a lot of things but they got there first on this one. They have a story for why things suck and they’re pounding the drum on it relentlessly. It doesn’t matter that this story is full of holes when the alternative is not compelling.
It doesn't help that every time we point out how society failed boys, there's always someone who says it's misogynistic to show men any concern....
Being a guy is no cake walk, and if anyone can say that with a straight face it's me.
lights up a cigarette They say women like a bad boy, well, I was so bad at being a boy I became a girl.
Yup. And it's always women and brown folks.
Don't forget LGBTQ and furries. 🙄
The amount of times I've had to address the "students using litter boxes" schtick is absolutely mind boggling.
It's always a school two towns over, and it's always someone who has no attachment to the school attempting to push it.
The media is flush with fascist attitudes in a country where going on the computer and listening to fascist rants is all you're allowed to do with your time.
"in a country where [...] all you're allowed to do with your time."
Eh... The same phenomenon is observed all over first world countries and all of those countries you're allowed to do mostly whatever the fuck you want with your free time...
You're free to do what you want and the police are free to rough you up for loitering.
If you stopped listening to fascist folks you could step outside and see that you have a lot more options.
Sorry you're in this rut!
I have great hope that they'll be better than our generation, just as we were better than our parents. Fuck the 'fuck the kids' mentality.
I'm a classroom teacher, and I find that you've gotta sometimes have both "fuck them kids" and "for the kids" in different measures. But overall, I feel like they're doing a lot of cool things.
That's a good point. I think that one of the myths that needs to die is that if the cherubic, sweet, innocent, and pure child. Many children, without guidance, are sociopathic assholes. We're not born "good" then corrupted by the world, we're born with some personality traits that may or may not help us as social creatures and need help to learn how to handle our emotions and cooperate with others in a manner that is pro-social.
Yup. Like John Green, I'm generally in favor of humans, but we've got some perfectly natural tendencies that can really harm others if left unchecked. I think kids want to do good, but they need to be taught how to, given the space to practice, and corrected with grace when they fuck it up.