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It won't stop until either Israel is disarmed or there is a complete change of people in charge of Israel and criminals like Netanyahu, his entire government and IDF commanders are sent to prison.
That latter option won't cause much change. Israel is, as a state and as a people, ideologically poisoned. They need something on the level of the denazification of Germany before you can hope for any change.
I am not disagreeing with you but you need to start somewhere. Sending Netanyahu, his government and senior IDF officers to prison for war crimes would send shock waves and could be a trigger of wider changes.
Ideally, I would like to see Northern Ireland power sharing solution in Palestine/Israel where each office is shared equally between Israelis and Palestinians. That however in my view can only follow after justice for the victims is achieved first and the perpetrators are in prison.
Honestly, I don't think justice for Palestinians is likely. As I see it, peace is inevitable but moderately far at the pace we're going, but justice would require a perceived violation of Israel's integrity that Palestinians will never have the bargaining power to demand. It'd be throwing a wrench into a peace process that will likely be reluctant and fragile already. Justice would be nice to have as an addon, but Palestinians will likely choose to take the fastest route towards human rights, which will be a two-state solution where Palestinians make some concessions but gain a state with real sovereignty. If something drastically changes justice might become possible, but in my thinking it'll be Palestinians, not Israelis, making concessions to make peace possible a la the Oslo Accords.
... or all of Radical Islam admits the cost is too high and gives up their pointless hate.
Pointless hate? These people are subject to Israeli Apartheid and acts of ethnic cleansing. Daily. What part of fighting that is pointless?
Only Nazi's think hating genocide is pointless.
It is the Sith that speak in absolutes.
Oh yeah, cause only a little bit of genocide is fine‽‽
Don't you think that feelings of victims hating the perpetrators are completely justified?
That's not the point. Forgiveness to avoid more tragedy is.
In times of “peace”, the Israeli boot was still heavy on their neck.
If only there were peaceful ways to get help that would almost have certainly garnered a lot more sympathy than resorting to terrorism...
So, your solution is for the Palestinians to shut up and die? Nice, real peaceful
You said it, not me, but continuing to propagate violence only makes your solution the only viable one. Food for thought.
Israel shoots into crowds of peaceful protestors in Palestine and has for years.
Israeli Snipers have shot and killed on foreign journalists for years at these events.
Israel has only ever responded to peaceful protests with lethal violence
When peaceful resistance is made impossible, violent revolution is inevitable
You can't expect people subjected to systematic violence and dehumanization for generations to not fight back for their own humanity and human rights
If only that was what they were fighting for.
Hasn't been made impossible, just costly. Still less costly than resorting to terrorism. What is the body count now? More or less than projected when Hamas was deciding to 10/7? Any closer to victory? Let me know when reality sinks in.
That is exactly what they are fighting for. Israel has always been the obstacle for peace, because it is a Settler Colonialist Ethnostate founded on, and ever continuing, ethnic cleansing. Apartheid is the reality.
Settlements
Israel does justify the settlements and military bases in the West Bank in the name of Security. However, the reality of the settlements on-the-ground has been the cause of violent resistance and a significant obstacle to peace, as it has been for decades.
This type of settlement, where the native population gets 'Transferred' to make room for the settlers, is a long standing practice.
The mass ethnic cleansing campaign of 1948:
Further, declassified Israeli documents show that the Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip were deliberately planned before being executed in 1967:
While the peace process was exploited to continue de-facto annexation of the West Bank via Settlements
The settlements are maintained through a violent apartheid that routinely employs violence towards Palestinians and denies human rights like water access, civil rights, etc. This kind of control gives rise to violent resistance to the Apartheid occupation, jeopardizing the safety of Israeli civilians.
One or Two State Solution
How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution
‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe
One State Solution, Foreign Affairs
Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution
Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place.
In the Shadow of the Holocaust by Masha Gessen, the situation in Gaza is compared to the Warsaw Ghettos. The comparison was also made by a Palestinian poet who was later killed by an Israeli airstrike. Adi Callai, an Israeli, has also written on the parallels in his article The Gaza Ghetto Uprising and expanded upon in his corresponding video
No, it's not. Let's imagine a future world where to settle the conflict Israel agrees to withdraw to the green line, endorse a fully UN recognized and supported independent Palestinian nation, pay reparations to Palestine, aid in its rebuilding if permitted, and sign a 100 year peace treaty with all adjacent nations. Accepting this hypothetical, would Israel be safe? Why or why not?
Withdrawing to the Green Line is impossible now with the settlements dividing the West Bank into hundreds of isolated enclaves. You cannot forcibly displace the over half a million settlers.
This is exactly why multiple Israeli Historians have discussed how the realities of the Apartheid and Settlements have made any actual Two-State solution not viable. If you read any of those three links, they discuss exactly that.
Zionism, with its Settler Colonialism for an Ethnostate, is incompatible with coexistance and equality.
You're avoiding the question. Assume it is possible.
You're avoiding the reality of the situation. I don't support the existence of any Ethnostate. In a Secular Bi-National One State, yes. You're underlying assumption that all this violent resistance comes from Antisemitism instead of Anti-zionism, is wrong.
So wrong you still know it is the issue without me saying anything. Nice try though.
It's very obvious what you are trying to get at. That doesn't make it the reality.
Adi Callai, an Israeli, does a great analysis of how Antisemitism has been weaponized (see 29:01) by Zionism during its history.
No, the fact they refer to their casualties as 'martyrs' does. You can stop with the copypasta. We both know you know what is really going on.
A martyr refers to anyone who dies from the Israeli occupation. The Apartheid and Genocide is what is really going on, I'm not sure you get that. It's very clear that you don't care for sources to learn more about the conflict, to the extent that you won't even consider the works of Israelis that may contradict your beliefs
I mean I'm not sure why you only value Israeli security in this arrangement, but presumably yes they would be. At least nobody would be launching rocket attacks.
They tried peaceful protests and the Israeli military opened fire on them. They went to the UN for help and Israel called it “diplomatic terrorism” and put sanctions on Palestinians. What alternatives are there?
There are, in fact, none. That's why Hamas managed to gain the Palestinian cause a lot of sympathy over the last 20 years while the PLO did absolutely fucking nothing.
Disarming Israel will make the war stop just like how disarming Ukraine would make that war stop as well.
Ukraine is not the aggressor
You meant Russia and yeah, both Israel and Russia should be disarmed.
No, I meant Ukraine. If Russia was disarmed, Ukraine and probably every other nation as well would just leave them alone. If Israel was disarmed, its enemies would murder every single jew in there.
That's why comparison to Ukraine is more accurate.
They would certainly remove the settlers back to internationally recognized Israeli borders, but no there's no evidence for your statement except Israeli lies about Palestinian slogans.
No, you definitely meant Russia. Aggressive fascist state invading their neighbours and murdering civilians, just like Israel.
You don't get to blame just one side for murdering civilians when both sides are doing it. You're being dishonest. The only reason there aren’t more dead Israeli civilians is because of their world-class air defense systems and their enemy's lack of military capacity.
I’d be really curious to hear what you imagine would happen to the Israeli population if we removed their ability to defend themselves and why it wouldn't be october 7th times a million?
No, it is definitely aggressors fault. Both Russia and Israel should fuck off back into their INTERNATIONALLY recognised borders.
This isn't about whose fault it was. Killing civilians is equally bad, no matter whose the aggressor and they're both doing it. You can't use that as an argument against Israel.
I’d be really curious to hear what you imagine would happen to the Israeli population if we removed their ability to defend themselves and why it wouldn’t be october 7th times a million?
No, it is definitely aggressors fault. Palestinians and Lebanese have right to defend themselves, just like Polish Home Army did during 2WW. If the aggressor fuck off back, civilians will stop dying.
I’d be really curious to hear what you imagine would happen to the Israeli population if we removed their ability to defend themselves and why it wouldn’t be october 7th times a million?
You really don't seem to want to answer this question. I wonder why that is.
Israel is an occupying force. 7th Oct would never have happened if Israel had not been commiting genocide and has not been occupying Palestine in the first place.
This is like arguing that Third Reich may suffer if it withdraws from land it occupied and/or Wehrmacht is disarmed.
You're the one who suggested disarming them. Now I'm asking what do you think is going to happen next.
You don't want to answer. We both know why.
They should be disarmed just like a criminal thug on the street should be disarmed to stop threaten other people. Israel should then allow all the Palestinians and their descendants to return. It should be forced to rebuild Palestine, Lebanon and pay reparations to all the people who suffered as the consequences of their actions, just like Nazi Germany was forced to.
What do you imagine would happen to the Israeli population if we disarmed them, i.e. removed their ability to defend themselves?
Just answer the question.
Are you a little bit slow or just a Nazi sympathiser?
The same what happened to nazi Germany.
They will also have to stop murdering their neighbours. Shocking, I know.
Oh, is that so? Well let me introduce you to two common chants we've been hearing lately which you are familiar with.
"From river to the sea"
"God Is the Greatest, Death to America, Death to Israel, A Curse Upon the Jews, Victory to Islam"
This isn't about territory. This is about anti-semitism. It's not Israel that's the problem to these extremists, it's the jews.
A genocide is what would happen. A real genocide.
/ It's not Israel that's the problem to these extremists, it's the jews.
Shut the fuck up. Seriously. These people have been suffering apartheid and slow-burn genocide, accelerating to full-blown genocide last year, and they're extremist who have a problem with Jews? Are you even listening to yourself?
The slogan From the River to the Sea is about Palestinian liberation that started in the 60s by the PLO for a democratic secular state, not Genocide. The Syrian leader Hafez al-Assad in 1966 maybe, but he's not Palestinian.
It's absolutely about Zionist Settler Colonialism. Israel has never represented all Jewish people and never will, nor are it's actions done to benefit all Jewish people. The conflation is itself antisemitic. Adi Callai, an Israeli, does a great analysis of how Antisemitism has been weaponized (see 29:01) by Zionism during its history.