[Idea] If you don't want to see huge flags taking space over actual drawings in the Canvas, pick the biggest flag that you can find to deface.
As long as a lot of people are doing that, the ones templating larger flags will be forced to reduce their layouts and give more room for actual drawings.
[Reasoning] When it comes to country flags, I think that the immense majority of the users can be split into four groups:
- The ones who don't want to see country flags at all.
- The ones who are OK with smaller flags, but don't want to see larger ones.
- The ones who want to see a specific large flag taking a huge chunk of space.
- The ones who want to see the whole canvas burning, like the void.
I'm myself firmly rooted into #1, but this idea is a compromise between #1, #2 and #4.
Typically #3 uses numbers (and/or bots) to seize a huge chunk of the canvas to their flags. Well, let's use numbers against it then. As long as #1, #2 and #4 are trying to wreck the same flag, we win.
[inb4]
But what about identity flags?
Not a problem. They're typically bands instead of thick squares, and people drawing them are fairly accommodating.
But what about [insert another thing]
Even if [thing] is a problem, it's probably minor in comparison with huge country flags.
What should be the template?
None. We don't need one, as long as everyone is working against the same large flag.
Just draw something of your choice over the flag, preferably over its iconic features.
But I'm not creative enough for that!
No matter how shitty your drawing is, it's probably still way more original than a country flag. So don't feel discouraged.
That said, you can always help someone else with their drawing. Or plop in some text. Or just void.
Why are you posting this now, you bloody Slowpoke?
I wish that I thought about this before Canvas 2024. But better later than never. (And better early by a year for Canvas 2025.)
EDIT: addressing on general grounds some whining from group #3 (the ones who want to see a specific large flag taking a huge chunk of the canvas space).
You do realise that this sort of "war against the largest flag" should benefit even you, as long as the biggest flag is not the one you're working with, right? Even for you, this makes the canvas a more even level field. Let us not forget that you love to cover other flags with your own.
It's always kinda icky when ppl are so proud of popping out of a vagina/their parents having sex in a certain place, that they feel like plastering it all over a creative space in the most unimaginative ways
I'm not quite sure I follow your reasoning here. You're saying that people shouldn't be proud of things that they have no control over? As a gay guy, should I not be able to put up a pride flag?
There's a ton of symbolism/meaning there, and doesn't always mean blind devotion to a country.
Being gay, or any other actual identity, is an intrinsic part of who you are that would still be true if all of society's constructs were to fall away. You'd still be interested, presumably, in people who presented in what we currently associate with masculine appearances. Trans folk would still be trans. POC, still POC.
Your home country doesn't hold up to the same rigour. I think that's the idea? Its less a "part of you" and more a "circumstance of your conception". But hey.
This is succinctly put - thanks for explaining it in this way. Yes, I agree that sexuality is a part of me whereas a nation you were born into is more of an external circumstance that can change in meaning. I do think that a nation's flag can hold different meanings and representations for people though.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, and I can certainly understand that from the perspective of nations that are currently being oppressed or suffering great hardships it might be a unifying symbol that helps people to find light in the darkness. I'm not sure I can see a huge argument for an Australian flag that covers 1/20th of the canvas, however. But to your original point, I see where you're coming from about these nations flags having other potential symbolism.
Oh yeah I do agree the flag was too big! I just don't see it as 'icky' as the other commentor said
imo grouping ppl into nations (and thus states) is usually harmful. Ethnicity and culture are not synonymous with states which only exist for one class to oppress another (virtually always in favour of the rich)
The concept of a nation is one of the initial lies of ruling elites. The exploiters and oppressors have shouted since the dawn of time: "Don't look at this massive ravine dividing us into materially opposing classes, we are all members of this abstract notion of a nation, remember? Direct your hate towards the exploited ppl of other nations, they are the source of "our" problems, even though you are much more aligned with them materially!"
For example: I wouldn't have a problem with ppl painting flags of progressive movements or states where the working classes are in power
EDIT: changed first sentence to a more accurate definition of a state (still basic)
I'm stealing this pic. It's awesome.
May I quote you if necessary? 😀
Why would you wanna quote me? >w<
it's just a basic Marxist take, nothing original
One doesn't have to be Marxist to recognise such things. I just thought that you phrased it well.
e: I also made a suggestion to ban flags in favour of the art and the spirit, in the "improvements" thread, and expected similar arguments.
ah ok, go ahead then!
also I do think that materialism and understanding that history is largely shaped by the dynamics of opposing classes, are essential in arriving at that conclusion (at least the one I tried to water down in my post)
and Marxism offers wonderful tools for that: historical and dialectical materialism
I agree that nationalism is extremely dangerous. But I feel like a flag isn't 'owned' by a nation, it can be an abstract concept that represents different things depending on the context. I get the feeling that the users that drew flags for this Canvas do not think their respective governments are perfect, or happily bow down to the rich. It's more complex than that.
Frankly, ditto. And it's icky for me specially when people conflate country with culture, like those people rather consistently do.
And... like, I get that we [people in general] get spammed by our governments with ideology, in order to ditch all available identities that we have at our disposal, and adopt the country-based identity that benefits the government. It's more often than not fuel for oppression.
Don’t know if you’re familiar with the US Oath of Allegiance that every school kid is forced to recite at the beginning of the day, but it’s literally an oath to a flag. Completely fucked up, IMO.
I'm aware of the oath of allegiance, and that it's an oath to a flag. On its own, this sounds ridiculous already - a symbol for another symbol, just like Brazil's hymn to the flag.
But being forced to recite it at the start of the day is news for me, and throws the "disgusting" factor up the roof. Even if it was with adults, and not reciting it was only socially awkward, it would be already a clear violation of consent. Swap the adults with kids and have their superiors (the school staff) forcing them to do so, and it gets way worse.
This also shows really well that a flag is not the symbol of a population, it's the symbol of a government. Otherwise it wouldn't make sense to require to have them to pledge allegiance.
Sadly, I don't think that the US government is special in this aspect. Governments are like this.
Agreed on all points. And I’m sure the US is not unique.
Come to think of it, the national anthem is also about the flag. We have a real fetish for cloth crafting.
Acc. to a map that I found it's relatively uncommon, but it does pop up for other governments (mostly Albania, Somalia, Switzerland, Turkey). So... yeah, your power structure does have a fetish for cloth crafting.
(Most other countries anthems talk about killing, self-references, or worship some individual. In the meantime almost none talks about friendship, and based on this map none seems to acknowledge that the world is not just the territory controlled by its government.)
There are some progressive battle anthems/hyms or some with a battle theme in a part of them and they still espouse friendship between the working peoples of this world! (though that's usually the case for (used to be) socialist music) "The Internationale", Vietnam's anthem, "Auferstanden aus Ruinen" and ofc USSR's anthem come to mind
What I mean to say is that violence can be liberatory instead of oppressive (like in the case of Vietnam)
Fair point.