this post was submitted on 06 Jul 2024
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A society which charges students to acquire knowledge values neither.
That seems like an Utopian view you're not paying for the knowledge but for the resources to learn and accreditation. Universities, professors, etc don't pay for themselves. Even when University is "free" you are paying it through taxes - which is still fine by me.
I don't agree, though, with the prices practiced in the US, that's just a way of restraining the population. Where I'm from, going to college is not expensive, I cannot fathom having to pay those ridiculous prices.
Paying via taxes is not charging students.
You do not pay taxes based on your use of public education or use of any other public service but based on your income and/or wealth.
If you do not make sufficient income as a student to pay taxes or enough taxes to cover the cost of your education your public education is in fact free to you.
What I meant is someone has to pay for it, it's not free lunch. You're right that the students don't pay it through taxes, but someone has to. Myself as a working person do pay for others through taxes
Edit: as people seem to have failed to see my point: I'm glad my taxes help pay for other's studies
Why do you think OP is not aware that there are costs to be paid but merely disagrees with using sports as a way to pay for it?
You even used the word Utopian. Well most universities are not financed via sports even non public ones. Far from Utopian.
Because this is literally what he said. He never mentioned sports, just charging in general.
I understand his sentiment, but it's not practical.
Charging students ≠ paying for the education through taxation as a public good
It must be practical as it is the normal way university works in much of the industrial world
Yes yes go read my other comments.
It is practical; Wholely tax funded universities do not charge students.
Yes I think we both agree with that. It was a misinterpretation on my part of OP arguments: no charging at all vs charging students
Don't think of it as paying for others, think of it as paying to live in a more civilised society. You benefit from talented doctors and engineers that cannot otherwise afford college being a part of your society. Heck, even if they can tackle student loans, which would you prefer, a dentist stressed about making the next payment or one that is carefree and can focus on fixing your teeth with as little pain as possible?
Read my comment again, you entirely missed my point: I want to think about it as paying it for others. I'm all for it I'll gladly pay taxes to allow others to go study, it's one of the things I'll defend fiercely. An educated society is a better one
Oh, my bad! I get it now!
I never claimed education shouldn’t be paid for, nor that resources shouldn’t be applied to its provision, but a society which levels the financial burden on the student is imposing an artificial and indefensible barrier on their collective progress.
Further, education can only be framed as expensive when it is not appropriately valued as the investment it is.
Finally, taxes don’t pay for anything when the funding originates from the issuing entity of a fiat currency.
I absolutely agree with this.
Not sure I understand your point
Basically MMT.
I'm so sick of this "nOtHiNg is fReE" retort. Yeah, no shit it isn't. Most of us are aware of that. Like others have said, what we mean is taxes should be the means by which we pay for education. Taxes paying for education is not utopian. It exists as a means for paying for education in the USA already, K-12. I personally don't think it is a stretch to change higher education to a tax drive model. Even in a world where it is "free" for the students there will still be people who don't go, so it's not like we have to collect taxes to account for all persons. College is not for everyone. Also if you try to use current college tuition as an excuse for it costing the tax payers too much, I don't want to hear it. It is already well established that higher education costs have balloned faster that other products and services in the market and I think that is a symptom of the stupid profit models of modern universities and colleges. From personal experience at university, you get treated like a line item on there accounting sheets rather than a student and that alone is a huge factor in the enshittification of higher education.
If you read my other comments you'll see that I defend exactly what you said ...