this post was submitted on 02 Jul 2024
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No I think it's the Steam Deck. It's like half of all actively used Linux machines.
Half of the Linux machines on Steam, not the entirety of Linux.
Yes sorry you're right
A very important distinction
Source? Last I checked, the Steam Deck was very much in the minority even when narrowed down to just desktop Linux.
Source is the Steam hardware survey set to show Linux data only. He forgot to mention the statement is only true for Steam Gamers, not for all of Linux desktops outside of Steam.
~ https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/?platform=linux
I believe the Steam Deck would be a significant portion of the Linux desktops, but Steam's survey might be a biased source, still
What does significant portion mean to you?
I can imagine it'd affect statistics enough to see a clear change
I confused it with Steam statistics sorry
no, the statistics are based on browser agents, very few steam deck users browse the Internet on their devices. it's also only half the Linux devices on steam, not of all Linux desktops
But that's not really a Desktop is it? If we'd count mobile device we'd also have to include Android and then the situation would look completely different.
Steam deck has a full fat kde desktop on the stock os
I could install a full fat kde on the entertainment system of a car - still wouldn't call it a desktop PC.
You can plug in a keyboard, mouse, and monitor
We don't include Android here. What I meant is that the Steam Deck does count in that statistics.
Steam Deck is a desktop. It is exactly the same PC hardware and software you are using on your desktop PC. It runs the same games and is software compatible. Steam Deck is a desktop PC.
Android has a different hardware (not x86 compatible), is focused on phones, its eco system of software is not compatible with PC and in reverse does not run your PC software. Android based smartphones are not a PC.
But how many use it for browsing, which I imagine this data is from?
Valid point to be honest, but the answer is probably more than you think. I have a PC and still used the Steam Deck to browse the web too, not at least to install stuff. Also searching something while playing is useful too. Its made to be docked to bigger screen as well.
While you are probably right, my point was its still a PC, because he compared it to Android. And why this is hugely different. His point was to exclude Steam Deck, because it is not a PC, just like we would exclude Android. This data from the stats probably does not make a difference if its a Steam Deck or not (nor can it tell it? because browsing is the same as on PC, its an Archlinux and regular browser after all). On the other side it can definitely tell if its Android and exclude it.
So regardless if you think people browse the web with Steam Deck or not, this data should not be able to tell the difference between most distributions and Steam Deck, as its just a normal PC with Firefox (or other web browser) from the point of the stats. Just my assumption.
So your definition for "desktop" is if it's an x86 compatible architecture? Seems pretty random to me. Btw, there are x86 android device. IMO a desktop is something on the top of a desk to do typical "office work". PCs, Macs, Laptops, etc. but calling a SteamDeck game console "Desktop" is pretty dishonest I think.
PC in the first place means x86 architecture. Desktop is the operating system, here a Linux desktop or Windows OS. Nothing random here. Steam Deck is a Desktop PC with form factor of a handheld. Just like any other Laptop is a Desktop PC in a notebook form factor. It runs, plays and uses the exact same hard and software as a Desktop PC. Calling Steam Deck PC not to be a Desktop is pretty dishonest. Also saying desktop PC must be on a desk for typical office work is random too.
Also this is all about stats. Don't forget, this is not your opinion or my opinion. I am speaking from the stats perspective, as the Firefox browser (or any other browser) is just a Desktop PC from the perspective of the stats.
If you say I am pretty random and being dishonest, then first, you are discounting others opinions, secondly did not even understand the purpose of my reply. Maybe you should watch out your language next time before responding if you want further discussion. I hope my reply here made it crystal clear.
The names are pretty clear and are about form factor. Desktop is something on top of a desk. Laptop is something on top of your lap. Hand-held is something you hold in your hand.
The steam deck is a hand-held game console - doesn't matter what OS is it uses. It's true that most stat tracking sites count it as "desktop" but not because it's a desktop computer but because the user agent looks similar to desktop user agents.
If I install Android on a tower PC it doesn't randomly become a smartphone even though all browser trackers would register it as a smartphone.
And Valve using a "typical desktop OS" on their handheld console doesn't magically turn it into a desktop PC.
The example with Android makes no sense as a argument in our discussion.
Wrong. It does matter. Plus, it matters what software and what configuration it uses the moment it gets counted in the stats.
The discussion is not about what you try to tell. You can say what you want, it does not matter that the Steam Deck uses hardware that is PC and software that is a hybrid of Desktop and Gaming operating system. And when going to the web with a web browser, then the Steam Deck is in Desktop mode, and therefore seen as a Desktop PC. Not only act it like that, the functionality is a Desktop PC.
The Steam Deck has two modes if you forgot that, and we are talking about the Desktop PC mode. Which is what the stats are all about.
Desktop is a form factor not "software" and there are microwaves and refrigerators with "PC hardware" (in quotes, because it's actually a pretty ill-defined term), but they still are not "Desktops" even is you install Fedora on your fridge.
That's just a definition for you. For the stats it does not matter what form factor it has. For the software and operating system, the form factor has 0 meaning. We are talking about stats and I explained it multiple times why the Steam Deck is a desktop PC from the perspective of web browsing stats. But I will end the discussion here now, as we are running in circles. Have a good day.
Ok I also try it one last time 🤣
Go to Google images and search for "Desktop". What you see is Desktop machines amd setups and how I and the vast majority of the world use the word "Desktop".
Now search for "handheld game console". It's very likely that one of the first few results is literally a SteamDeck.
Now back to the stats. As I already said. SteamDeck will be tracked as a Desktop because stat tracking sites just use Browser User Agents and try to detect what the device actually is, but that's very hard if not right out impossible because clients (including the SteamDeck) intentionally (for privacy and compatibility reasons) lie about what they are all the time!
If you take your mobile browser and enable "Desktop site" or "Desktop mode" it will lie(!) and make the server think it's a Desktop - even though it is really not. A smartphone doesn't magically become a Desktop PC. If I browse the web with my typical mobile browser - every site will track my activity as smartphone. If I switch to Desktop mode most sites will track me as a Linux Desktop Machine. But my device has not changed.
So you are right that the SteamDeck is tracked as a Desktop PC. But that's because the Server has has either no better category for the device or can't determine what the device really is because it lies about what it is.
https://webaim.org/blog/user-agent-string-history/
Stat tracking always had (and will have) two big issues (which can't really be fixed).
Devices which lie about what they are (see link above) and the problem that they have to come up with some categories and there will always be some devices which fall between the categories (Think fridge, microwaves, sex toys, etc.).
If your SteamDeck is currently actually connected to a monitor a mouse and a keyboard than you are actually using it as a Desktop PC. But if you use it like most people - even though the SteamDeck lies about it - it's not a Desktop, because the word "Desktop" really is about the form factor - it's not just my definition. Give any of your friends a piece of paper and a pencil and ask them to draw a Desktop PC - I would actually be amazed if anybody in the world (even you! outside the context of this discussion) would draw anything even remotely resembling a Steam Deck.
👋
Connect the Steam Deck to a compatible dock and you can quite easily use it as a desktop. At the end of the day, it's still an x64 based PC that's just handheld.
I'm not sure that's really a good argument. I can connect an android smartphone to a monitor, keyboard and mouse and call it Desktop. It's also just an arm64 or x64 based PC just handheld.
A Desktop PC IMHO is a device that is used for everyday "office" work and neither android smartphones nor steamdecks are that - but laptops for example are (IMHO)
It is. I use it as such regularly. Keyboard+mouse+screen = browsing firefox as usual. Works quite well. Libreoffice, okular, signal desktop... I've used worse computers in recent years, steamdeck desktop experience is better than many 4 to 5 year old cheap laptops with win10 or win11.
Android is not Linux. It uses the Linux kernel and that's it. You can't install Linux applications on it.
And laptops are also mobile devices. Not much difference between a laptop and a Steam Deck.
Android is as Linux as every other Distro is.
Yes because that's actually what Linux is. A kernel. There are also no such things as "Linux applications". Different distros use different package formats. If you mean ELF binaries you can certainly run those. Android in it's typicall configurations tried to prevent that because it would be a huge security vulnerability if apps could just run random ELF binaries, but if you root your device you can run those.
In Steam maybe. But this is StatCounter which is website visits. I doubt many Deck users are browsing the web.
For some reason I think a lot of them (probably even more than half) have tried browsing the web or at least using the desktop mode at least once.
Oh that is a good point, why didn't I think of that!