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Yeah, but you'd vote for Biden too.
The question isn't about who you or I'd vote for. The question is who'd "Joe Moderate" would vote for?
And spoiler alert: "Joe Moderate" isn't exactly a feminist or LGBT ally. "Joe Moderate" is the various citizens of Arizona, Pennsylvania, Georgia, Wisconsin, and Michigan who flipped from Red to Blue in 2020.
So you're saying Joe Moderate is going to vote for a Female Governor? An openly gay politician? Or the California man who is proudly pushing ACCII to force people to buy Electric Cars? I don't think so.
Fuck sake, why do you have to be right?
My immediate response was "well anyone who is paying attention absolutely would vote for one of them given the alternatives of Trump and Biden" but that's exactly the point, most people aren't paying enough attention. I can't even argue with that. And the people whose vote we have to court the most are the fence sitters who definitely especially aren't paying proper attention. Fuck.
I don't even have more to add to that, now I'm just depressed. Because you're right, I WOULD vote for Biden anyway even if I hate it, I said so myself, so I'm not even the target audience here. And Joe Moderate is going to ratchet us three clicks further right just in order to attempt preventing even worse.
On some level I definitely already knew all this but I have to say this is throwing it all into some pretty stark light.
Rest assured, Biden's methodology has reached across the aisle and really solidified my support for him. I'm not liberal in the slightest and I recognize I'm probably a minority of people who considers themselves "conservative". But Biden's approach did reach out to me in a way that no other Democrat has.
I think you're underestimating Biden.
That's where my confusion comes in. I really don't think Trump did very well on that stage, and you should instead be talking about how Trump literally defended January 6th to your cohort. Instead of a few missed lines and typical Biden blunders.
Biden always sucked at these debate settings. Yes, he's older and even worse at it, but Biden wasn't really that good in 2020 either. None of this shit is new to Biden voters.
Liberals really go hyperbolic and freak out at little things. Yall should learn from the Conservatives and I dunno... put a bit of Trust in the leader yall chose? Republicans have put too much faith in Trump, but Democrats consistently put too little faith in their leaders (and this entire episode of people calling on Biden to step down / be replaced is a continuation of this Democrat tradition).
So Trump is a charismatic liar / Reality TV Star who uses his literal WWE experience to form a bullying debate style that's popular amongst the US Public. You already knew that, right? How else did you think this would go? It went like this last time in 2020.
Is Joe Moderate going to vote for an old man that can easily be legally declared incompetent to manage his own life, let alone an entire country? I doubt it.
Joe Biden stumbled but what the hell?
Trump was the one talking in circles about immigrants and was literally unable to respond to the moderator's questions.
Biden's age is showing, but Trump's brain is turning into cheese. The difference is that Republicans proudly rally behind their cheese-brain candidate while yall scardy-cats backstab Biden the first chance yall get.
Pretty sure Biden was asked about abortion rights and went on a rant about a woman murdered by an immigrant and then trailed off into nothingness.
The entirety of the 2nd half of the "Debate" had Trump talking about how Social Security is ruined by immigrants. Medicare ruined by immigrants. January 6th is ruined by immigrants.
It was some fucking nonsense. And somehow, I go online and not a single Democrat in a discussion is pointing out this severe weakness of Trump.
Because everyone, including his own base, knows he is a liar. It isn't new and is honestly exhausting to talk about. Nobody fucking cares anymore. People are either not voting for him or they have already decided to disassociate from reality. Trump is too polarizing and Biden will not pull any votes from Trump. Biden needs to pull in people that are on the fence between voting for Biden or not voting at all. Debates will not pull anyone from Trump and are a waste of time. Unless he can do something in a debate that can convince fringe people to show up to vote, debates will only hurt him. And it very much hurt him. Now people realize the guy who could barely complete a sentence when he was 77 didn't miraculously get better before he turned 81.
And yet talking about Biden's advanced age is new and not exhausting to talk about?
Because let me tell you one thing: the discussion you've chosen to get worked up about, plays to your political opponent.
I'm not talking about his "Advanced age", I'm talking about his inability to complete a coherent sentence. Also, I'm not sure who you are referring to being my political opponent. I am against a fucking criminal being president AND I am against a senile, demented, corpo being president. They are both my "political opponents" . If people keep falling in line, they will keep putting trash forward. I will vote against the (convicted) criminal in November. But I will not stop bitching loudly about the trash they give us. I'm not going to shut up because I aM sCaReD of TrUmP. That is all they have to count on. The democrats have already lost and I want them to know why.
Sure sure.
So who's your pick for President? Start listing names. Lets see if you get any traction.
I'm a Republican FYI. But I am an anti-Trump Republican. Do you think you can list a name of someone that both you and I'd vote for?
I am a hard left liberal, me and you will never voluntarily vote for the same person.
Are you telling me you will vote for Biden in his current state over Kamala or Newsom? Newsom I get. Even his own state doesn't like him. I don't like either of them, far too center for me, but I would take them over Biden currently. I am curious who there are more of, Republicans turned against Trump that are willing to vote for Bubble blowing Biden just to make sure Trump loses, but won't vote for Kamala, or gen z ers and millennials who may or may not vote, hate Trump, but just realized the other option is literally a potato so why vote anyway, we're fucked either way. Because I feel like the last one is far more common. Just give them someone sentient and they will show up to vote.
A vote for Biden is practically a vote for Kamala, so Kamala is something I've already accepted. I don't think it will do much favors though because she's much more divisive and I know plenty of racists who will NOT vote for Kamala and actively vote for Trump instead. So its not so much me you have to worry about Kamala, but some other fence-sitters I know of.
If yall Democrats don't think Biden is going to last all 4 years, then its all Kamala in the long run anyway.
You're going to lose Michigan over Advance Clean Cars II, which is so extreme its even banned hybrids by 2035 (despite the fact that many hybrids have more environmental friendliness than cars like Hummer EV).
There's a lot of stupid here, and honestly Biden has handled the situation far better and more reasonably than many Democratic Governors on issues like this.
His clean car act would have a lot harder time passing nationally than in California. Either way, whatever law California makes regarding vehicles is what the entire country ends up following since they are the biggest market. So it's already done. And he is hated nationally because of it already, so yeah, not him. I agree with a push for EV for new cars. But I own a classic, and my current cars are gassers, I've used a couple evs on the regular and they have gotten a LOT better recently. But they are not quite there yet battery wise for trucks and bigger vehicles. Hopefully the auto companies rush to satisfy this requirement will spark some serious innovation over the next decade so we can REALLY start filling the landfills with old batteries that will end up being a bigger problem than the smog. My next car will be an EV, but it will be a while before I can get an EV truck practical for towing my trailer for work or my trailer to camp.
Yeah, I thought that last cycle, but it turns out they have no issue with him being incoherent.
I am done with my rant now. My rage over this situation is because a lot of people over the last 5 years refused to aknowlage Bidens issues. If you ever said .... hey guys? You see a problem here? They tell you to shut up or we'll get Trump, he just has a stutter. Now all the sudden everyone is surprised Pikachu face. The democrats have had 6 years to find someone else but they decide to pander to the center when there is a lot more people further to the left that have been disenfranchised, but those people to the left are not profitable to pander to.
I agree with more environmentally friendly regulations because I'm a moderate Republican.
But EVs are not necessarily something I can get behind. The EV Hummer emits more carbon than a normal ICE Honda Civic. When you "Democrats" are so blinded by your EV love that you start harming the country and causing more carbon pollution from your 8000lb inefficient EVs... and yet write the laws to encourage them anyway, it becomes blatantly obvious that yall have also just been captured by the EV manufacturers rather than actually caring about the environment anymore.
A serious environmental bill would be... well... like Biden's bill. Something I can get behind and support because its actually based on environmental standards rather than blatantly handing out money to EV manufacturers.
Biden has proven himself to be... well not a conservative... but at least someone who cares about the fundamentals of the regulations he pushes. He's not someone I can 100% agree with, but he's far better of a candidate than pretty much every other Democrat I've seen.
If yall are going to push environmental standards, at least have them make sense. With how Newsom pushed his ACCII standard, its utterly shit.
I agree that Biden doesn't sound good on stage. But there's actions, regulations, and details with how Biden actually governs. These details are far better than many other politicians.
In any case, if the Democrats have lost faith in Biden, figure out a replacement before you get rid of him. He's not as bad as the mass media thinks. There's reasons why the far-right are thinking that the mass-media is "tricking them", because we all see that Biden is actually someone who is moderate enough to see the details and nuances of the laws. But obviously, Biden can't win this without Democrats support either, so whatever. Do what you want.
It seems to me, from my more conservative/moderate perspective, that your best chance is to stick with Biden. But I don't have a pulse on what the left feels overall.
Definitely don't cut Biden out for Kamala. Instead, just run Kamala more as a strong VP (possibly Presidential) candidate. People will be asking for more questions about Kamala moving forward.
The plan for "Kamala" is that Biden resigns in January 2025 after the election. Its something everyone would innately understand (Biden stays just for the rest of the election, but we get Kamala). Its the underlying assumption of most voters anyway.
I think that's your next best bet. Because I don't think Kamala can actually run and succeed on the top of the ticket. So having a bit of that weird indirection could be the last push you need to get the more racist to vote for her (albeit indirectly).