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Nikki Haley writes ‘finish them’ on IDF artillery shells during Israel visit
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 29 May 2024
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The conflict is only controversial to one party.
Unlike Hollywood movies, things aren't always black and white. It is quite possible that both sides are. Neither the Hamas nor Nethanyahu government are the good guys. Both sides try to exterminate the other side. Both sides also don't mind killing innocent people in their way.
It is a fucked up situation, and with recent developments it looks like it is turning into Israel's Afghanistan. Biden was right warning Nethanyahu to not make the same mistake at US did after 9/11.
I responded to a comment asking why a national politician would choose a side in a conflict. My response was that her political party has picked a side to support by a wide majority.
Republicans support Israel in this conflict almost universally. Haley's support of Israel isn't controversial in her own party.
This wasn't a statement on the morality of the conflict, but of the political support of the belligerents. Republicans support Israel.
Apologies, I misinterpreted the word "party" I thought it was a party in the conflict like Israel vs Gazans. And that Israel supporters don't see it as controversial.
But Israelis DONT see it as controversial. Surveys of Israelis show 68% oppose humanitarian aid to Gaza. Intentional collective punishment and starvation are war crimes but they enjoy wide support in Israel; Netanyahu’s use of them is not considered objectionable by the mainstream and that’s not why the Israeli public is angry at him.
Bud, there is no duty to send people free food. Humanitarian aid is a nice gesture. Stopping it isn't a war crime. Like what are you even talking about?
That’s an impressive attempt at spinning.
This isn’t about Israel giving free food, but that Israel is intentionally BLOCKING all food shipments into the Gaza Strip AND blowing up water and food production facilities to intentionally create a famine. The Geneva Conventions require you to ensure the health and safety of civilians of land you control. Intentional and deliberate starvation of civilians is a WAR CRIME. I can’t spell it out any further for you.
They aren't blocking all food shipments. This is false. Israel helped open three new desolinization plants since the war started. You got tricked.
They blocked all food shipments for months and only relented after the US and ICJ pressured them and even then it’s only a trickle and not enough to sustain life. The confirmed famine is happening BECAUSE Israel is intercepting and blocking food from entering despite the long line of literally hundreds of trucks at israel-controlled crossings. It’s pure sophistry to suggest otherwise.
This is not true. Line length varies, hundreds of trucks go through every day. Some are held up. Yeah there is active combat in Rafah, that crossing has been closed some lately. You cannot cherry pick a couple of things that were true on one or two occasions and pretend its representative of the entire thing.
Hey, maybe Gaza could use their airport or their waterport to import as much food as they want? Oh wait, they gave them to Hamas who turned them into instrumentalities for international terrorism.
Hey, maybe they could import whatever they want through Egypt. Oh wait, Egypt doesn't want Hamas using their border to import weapons and fighters, either.
There is no amount of aid that Israel is obligated to provide that is the cause of any hunger in Gaza. If people in Gaza are hungry, they should look to their own leadership, who are fucking fat, well fed, Happy to have all the food they want while neighbors and families are food insecure.
The fact that they provide any food is what makes them the most moral Army in the world. Any other Army would have leveled Gaza and everyone in it 20 suicide bombings ago.
Like I said above, pure sophistry on your part.
Israel is occupying Gaza currently, there are no civil services left. This is not in dispute and Israel admits this. International law says that the occupying power has responsibility to ensure the health and wellbeing of the civilian population. Israel is intentionally denying food from being delivered, they closed the borders for months until Biden pressured Israel to reopen them. That’s not Hamas’ fault. In fact, the Israeli government used intentional starvation as leverage to try and force Hamas to free hostages, but that’s also illegal and a war crime because you’re killing people unaffiliated with Hamas as a means to pressure them.
It was zero for months, and even today it’s not at prewar levels and too low to prevent a famine. That’s Israel’s responsibility and no other, both under law and by the consequence of their actions. The IDF destroying desalination plants and farms means there’s no means of growing local food left, so even more food trucks are needed than prewar. 500 trucks a day was needed prewar and far more are needed now but the recent average has been 300 trucks a day. That’s because the IDF demands inspections of foreign goods and delays and rejects them arbitrarily. Again, the end responsibility is on Israel to feed the population since they now occupy the land and they aren’t doing it; not giving their own food or allowing enough foreign food.
Gaza has been blockaded since 2007 and that previous excuse of there being a Hamas government is no longer applicable; Hamas is no longer in control of 70% of the land in Gaza according to the Israeli government and therefore the responsibility to avoid famine is now on the occupying government. You may not like it but that’s the law including in Israel where they are bound by the Geneva Conventions.
Completely wrong and ignorant of Israeli and international law as noted above.
I’m not going to waste any further time if you don’t know any of this. It’s settled international law, which is why it’s not just the UN, ICC, ICJ, many NGOs, and many governments including parts of the Israeli government that aren’t rightwing who all publicly admit this.
You're living in fantasy land. The blockade doesn't stop Gaza from opening water or food infrastructure. What stops they from happening is Hamas.
The deluded person is you. How can you open water infrastructure if Israel considers pipes “dual use” and chemical treatment for water purification a possible weapon and bans their importation? Edit: and Israel never gives import permits for these.
Either you didn’t know you were wrong or you knew this and are making dishonest arguments. Either way I’m not wasting any further time. Peace.
You are not correct. Don't waste your time lying anymore.
Dual use does not mean something is banned and cannot enter, you donkey, it means it requires an import permit. Usually an export license, too, from the country shipping it. Israel Issues permits for pipes all the time or there wouldn't be new water infrastructure being constructed in Gaza right now.
Since you apparently have no clue what you're talking about, every country requires import permits for dual use items. It's only a war crime to you when it's Jews. Hey, you need a permit to bring military hardware into America also. Give me a break.
That's why I clarified.
In the discussion of American politics, the Republican Party is very pro-Israel. The Republican Speaker of the House has gone as far to invite Netanyahu to address Congress as a show of friendship and support. The opposition to this invitation has mainly been from Democratic members.
American voters could punish Biden for being complicit in genocide, but that punishment isn't going to end the genocide.
Pretty sure Republicans don't as much support Israel as much as they just want to see Muslims bombed.
There is a long tradition of bipartisan support for Israel and it's because Israel generally shares democratic ideals.
You’re not wrong but did you reply to the right comment?