GivingEuropeASpook

Like Russia, the US prosecutes you for exposing the truth of what the US army does abroad. arguing that classified information keeps US citizens safe in their "work" abroad – not unique to the US but the US is the dominant world power still so it gets a lot of criticism from the left. It's hard to get the right perspective when you live in an imperial core that has done a lot to insulate its civilian populace from the impacts of conflict, and governments don't like it when whistleblowers make it easier.

https://vkrizis.ru/obschestvo/olga-smirnova-prigovorena-k-shesti-godam-za-sem-postov/

If you search her name in Cyrillic you can find Russian sources (.ru domains are managed by Russia, no?)

I don't know if they'd go through the effort of staging the photo

https://vkrizis.ru/obschestvo/olga-smirnova-prigovorena-k-shesti-godam-za-sem-postov/ https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/6186252

I don't read russian but I think this is legit? I just copied and pasted her Cyrillic name in Duck Duck Go, so these might still be western propaganda targeted towards Russians like I said I don't speak or read Russian or know major outlets in Russia.

I tended to have communism/socialism condescendingly poopooed as "well-meaning" but "never really working because human nature".

Anyways, time to learn about the french revolution and the reign of terror, which in no way should be viewed as an indictment of liberal revolutions the way the red terror does for socialism.

I think liberals extend some courtesy to other ~~white~~ "Western" nations.

Valid, but cynical arguments make up a lot of foreign policy takes :/. Part of why I speak how I do is because I want to live in a world that one day won't be ruled by realpolitik and for people to matter when it comes to the foreign policies of nationstates.

I guess it comes down to what happens to the separatists if Ukraine wins, and I've seen people say they'd be genocided but I don't really buy that, seems speculative and like propaganda.

I'm inclined to agree.

My real issue is that Ukraine won't negotiate at all, even on Crimea, and I just think that's unreasonable.

For the same reason that every country tells its own seperatist movements "no". I believe that Russia should've waited things out because its the open state of war that gives Ukraine enough diplomatic cover to push to its pre-2014 borders. Had it done so I think given another decade or two, Ukraine would have to accept reality and cede it formally in exchange for concessions of some sort (again, thinking of historical precedent).

While I've been describing and explaining sovereignty as a concept I do believe it presents inherent flaws indicative of its origins with European royals and its having been imposed across the world.

it's not exactly a ringing endorsement of relocation

Of course not, but a war with shifting frontlines (since I was suggesting it as an alternative to invasion) would be inherently more destructive. (Although forced relocation can be committed as a war crime too).

what if....no you can't secede and I don't care how many of you want to?

This is what happens with every seperatist movement pretty much though, and yet i dont see many calls for arms and civil war Cascadia, Scotland, Catalonia these days. The people there know it would mean the destruction of everything they hold dear.

...possible for Russia to offer citizenship and relocation assistance to everyone, but it would mean displacing a lot of people and I'm not sure it's realistic. Do you have examples of historical precedent in a comperable situation?

I mean, I don't think there's any way of getting around displacing people - if it joined Russia I'm sure there are people who'd want to leave for Ukraine, and of course we're already talking about the reverse.

I can't think of specific examples but there's definitely been examples of mass migration or offering of citizenship due to "political solutions" meant to avoid conflict and reduce the spectre of war. Just off the cuff though, I can think of how people of Northern Ireland are able to hold Irish passports, or the numerous migrations that happened in the 20th century when borders were changed or imposes as parts of treaties (the part of Germany that is now Poland, the Muslim/Hindu migrations between Pakistan and India during partitioning, etc)

These aren't good or something I'm arguing for, but I believe that it was preferable to all out war.

I don't think you can extrapolate like that from a single data point under pretty different conditions.

Me too, that's why I said it at the end as an aside, it was more of a glib comment than an actual thesis.

While i don't doubt Russian civilians have gotten hurt or killed, ukraine isn't targeting city centers or hospitals deliberately the way Russia has.

while I suppose it's not impossible that a 19(?) year old AOC was a CIA agent

I think this is a really salient point, not just in reference to the NGO work but in terms of her being a turncoat in general. I think there's a natural tendency to reframe how we look at someone's past when we grow disillusioned with someone because of their actions, but I don't think AOC set out to get elected with the express goal of misdirecting revolutionary sentiment into support for the future Biden Administration.

Damn if that isn't the biggest indicator of her about-face since getting elected

I've seen it brought up before that in the past when the US had a stronger socialist movement, it had people who ran and were elected to US Congress but then used their position subversively, and their terms were generally short-lived in the process. How I wish this was AOC – she seemed to abandon that once Trump was out of office.