I agree. I wanted to say it's kind of immoral to write that propaganda when you're not even fighting yourself. And it's twice as immoral when you know that no one wants to fight anymore and people are forced against their will. Not that something should be banned.
Ciralinde
joined 5 months ago
Some of what he’s saying is clearly total bullshit (“Both Ukraine and Russia are hopeless corrupt evil dictatorships” “ukraine beats, kidnaps and tortures people to send them to meat grinder” “a worse dictatorship than russia is”)
There are thousands of videos like this: https://streamable.com/lzh27n
If you want to check the scale of this and find more videos and news of how this is going, you can check this telegram channel: https://t.me/+MUx169gobDtjZjJh
Many of our videobloggers compare this to Holodomor due to the fact that those who were executing those orders back then were also locals.
“Military is terribly mismanaged”
Military commandment is very bad. A lot of soldiers escape from there (AWOL/deserting), everybody is talking about this, even the most patriotic bloggers that oppose ceasefires etc.
“US/EU giving money to Ukraine is basically sponsoring kidnapping/torturing/killing people who don’t want to fight”
How are regular ukrainian soldiers responsible for any of this? It's the fault of our corrupt government. Most soldiers are also very unhappy with this mismanagement and and ask to not send people who will most likely desert from battlefield to their brigades.
“it’s not like they can’t go to Ukraine-controlled territories and mobilize there and go to the frontlines if they really care for this country so much”
Sure because that whole article is bullshit propaganda by people who will never have to fight in war themselves. Is it even moral to be allowed to have a voice in question of whether to continue the war when they aren't even subject to conscription?
Sorry, what? How is EU allocating money to defend themselves from Russia is for my sake? That's for the sake of their own people. They should watch closely what it does to people morale here in Ukraine when civilians are forcefully conscripted and try hard to make sure they never have to do the same to their civilians.
this will happen sooner or later regardless.
EU should allocate more spending on their military so that when the day comes, they will have more than enough professional soldiers to fight Russia and have no need to mobilize civilians. If EU was one country it would be hard, but when there is NATO, contract soldiers from many NATO states might be enough without additional conscripts.
People are dying to keep your apartment building safe,
Just open the borders and there's no need to protect me personally.
trashing them
I'm not trashing ukrainian soldiers. Conscription officers are not soldiers and never were. Neither are politicians.
It sounds like that’s really important to you.
It's just that russians lives now supposedly valued way more than ukrainians while it was part of propaganda that russian lives worth nothing and ukrainians are part of civilized world and share its values.
Women and ukrainians who live outside of Ukraine, especially those who left before May 2024, have a very different mental image of Ukraine. For me the main turning point is the scale of unlawful forced conscription really. Simple as that. I stopped paying taxes, stopped donating, and stopped mentally supporting Ukraine. I just care for borders to open at this point. Both Ukraine and Russia are hopeless corrupt evil dictatorships to me.
So why don’t you go get conscripted and give up to russian soldiers? If Ukraine is a worse dictatorship, surely that will be a step up.
Just one "step up" from ukrainian levels of shittiness isn't enough. This is too unsafe compared to giving up to EU. Russians will definitely want to trade you to some of their captured people even if you don't want to go back. EU will most likely not trade you back if you ask them.
and on social media
Maybe those people are there to create a picture for you. Now that USAID and similar projects are stopping, we might see less of those.
every so often they bring up what the bonus amount is for people signing up for armed forces in Moscow
You all look at this literally as battle of good vs evil, the reality: ukraine beats, kidnaps and tortures people to send them to meat grinder, while russia stopped forced conscription and pays 22k$ to motivate their conscripts. The propaganda image of ukraine as good or democratic is absurd. It's just a meat shield of west at best, and it rapidly becomes more and more inefficient.
If you want to check current ukrainian inside discourse, watch independent ukrainian bloggers, a few for a start:
our safety is for Ukraine to win the war
It's impossible and it was obvious to anyone who bothered to check basic arithmetic from the very beginning. My best hope is for some kind of ceasefire, elections, peace deal, which all give some little chance that maybe mobilization will stop and borders will open.
you won’t get conscripted into the russian army the moment Kyiv gets occupied
And sent where, to Baltic or Poland? Okay, I'll proceed to give up to NATO soldiers immediately.
And the least we can do for that is to stop pretending russian government has any sort of moral advantage
It's not that they're nice, it's just that ukrainian government turned country into a worse dictatorship than russia is, and it really uncovered some truths about democracies, media, how european are ukrainian values and how helpful UN is, and many other things.
I said it has open borders which is factually true. Also, last summer they paid their conscripts in Moscow 22k$ for a contract. Regarding "human rights", well, lets try to count human rights. We don't have the right to criticise our government and we don't have the right to leave the country. Russians don't have the right to criticize their government but they do have the right to leave the country. They also pretty much free to walk their cities and participate in whatever activities present there unlike our conscription-aged men who are only really allowed to participate in war.
It is how Ukraine does it, too. Currently I don't think you can go for contract when you already have to be mobilized according to databases (on "Wanted" list in apps like "Reserve+" or "Dija"). And payment is laughable anyway. It would be really easy to boost morale if government decided to end forced conscription and paid to volunteers more than russia does. And it also could probably help to stabilize the frontlines. Given how much they steal I'm pretty sure they have more than enough money to pay more than russians 22k$ to volunteers as a single-time payment.
Too bad if they doesn't. What they gonna do when the time comes. In EU conscious objection is supposed to work, so people can decline en masse (did you know that includes personal beliefs, not necessarily religion?). They'd better start using that distinction asap and consider soldier as a full-time work even in peace time. So that enough people will be paid to be soldiers like a job but in case of war they and only they will go fight and no one else.