this post was submitted on 23 Jan 2024
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144
Modder Who Put Pokémon Into Palword Says 'Nintendo Has Come for Me' (sea.ign.com)
submitted 9 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[–] [email protected] 103 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (3 children)

Yeah no shit. The way you do this is you release it, no notice. Open source or at least release the files so others can repackage if needed. Then if you get a C&D, it's out there and you can take yours down but others can upload dozens of other copies. But they all want to build up their fame first with teasers.

Makes me think it wasn't real when they keep making the same mistakes.

Speaking to IGN, Toasted Shoes said he still plans to publish the full video showcasing the mod, but will comply with any further copyright notices from Nintendo. “We would love to complete the mod pack and release it for free to the public, however for now we are playing it by ear as we don't want any legal troubles,” Toasted Shoes said.

It's not even complete yet. I'm betting this is the last we'll hear of it.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 9 months ago

Yep, if he'd release it first then publicize it, we could have had copies of it floating around but this influencer had to spread hype to all the news outlets, getting attention from big N real quick.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 9 months ago

This supposed showcase he intends to release should be worth a laugh at least

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

These days you train a “AI” to reproduce the copywritten assets, distribute your “AI” and then say the machine did it, so it’s not copyright.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (3 children)

Not really how copyright works but ok

EDIT: The fact that you got an AI to replicate something that already exists does not invalidate the original rightholder’s copyright. Further, “AIs can’t hold a copyright” just means the person who prompted the AI owns the work, in the same way Photoshopping something doesn’t mean that Photoshop itself now owns the copyright (nor does Adobe). Thus, you still end up the person responsible for violating Nintendo’s copyright and trademarks, and we’re just doing the same thing with extra steps.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Yes, but by OpenAIs line of argument, the model itself isn’t piracy/theft/rights-infringing.

The output of the model might be, but that’s not the model creators problem. So by distributing the model, you’re no longer distributing infringing material.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago

The output of the model might be, but that’s not the model creators problem

But it is the problem of the hypothetical person trying to launder copywritten assets through an AI. I guess you were probably just joking but it doesn't make sense.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

Huh, I thought it was that it couldn't qualify for copyright because it was ai produced. Not made by a human. Like the monkey selfie

[–] [email protected] 37 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Who had "within 24 hours"? Anybody?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 9 months ago (1 children)

forget hours, I am surprised he even survived pressing the upload button

[–] [email protected] 8 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Luckily, the corpos haven't gone full Minority Report on our asses yet.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

give them a decade give or take lel

[–] [email protected] 28 points 9 months ago (2 children)

I wonder if anyone is going to mod Steam Boat Willy into the game and see how long it takes Disney to claim trademark infringement.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Steamboat Willy is in the Public domain as of Jan 1st

[–] [email protected] 10 points 9 months ago

Yes but now they are trying to trade mark it

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

They'd be 23 days late on that claim

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

They've started putting steam boat Willy in front of all their movies so they can protect it with trademark since the copyright has expired.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 9 months ago (1 children)

have they actually tried enforcing it yet? or is that just the internet's working theory?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

Just the theory but it isn't outside of Disney's MO

[–] [email protected] 9 points 9 months ago (4 children)

Not that this would save the average person from litigation hell, but does Nintendo actually have a legal leg to stand on? What would make a (free) mod any different from any other artistic expression?

Also assuming the mod creator didn't do anything crazy like rip assets from an existing Pokémon game.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (3 children)

Copyright law doesn't really care if its commercial/personal - just if its fair use. For reuse of characters, its an esspecially high bar. In this case, its reuse of characters as-is so that wouldn't be considered transformitive, and its obviously not criticism, so it wouldn't be allowed.

For a comparison, every Pokemon is under the same protection Mickey Mouse was a decade ago. Basically, unless you're directly criticizing the art or character its not technically fair use. Even gameplay footage is a grey area. Its just a matter of how litigious Nintendo wants to be.

Edit: minor correction, commercial/personal sort-of matters, but more in a "is it competing with or damaging to the original work" sort of way - something making money looks more official and suggests more effort and intent, for example.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago (2 children)

How is it that the pokemon mod for minecraft never received such pushback from nintendo, but this modder gets DMCA'd on the spot? Fair use should cover using characters. There's plenty of games that re-use characters as mods (look at skyrim and all the ridiculous mods that import characters from other franchises).

All this copyright nonsense over a free mod is just a waste of resources.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

All this copyright nonsense over a free mod is just a waste of resources.

This is what it boils down to, not that these mods are legal. Copyright is basically meant to block anything that could even remotely compete with the work, and give a monopoly over the idea. Doesn't matter if its a free passion project or a billion dollar company. Thats part of why its so absurd that copyright lasts so long. That said, most don't want to spend a fortune playing whack-a-mole with their own fans' free passion projects, unless those passion projects compete with them directly. That might even be why Pixelmon is left up - its seen as too janky to directly compete whereas this mod/game combo is pretty much what fans have been asking GameFreak to make for a decade and as a paid, commercial product at that.

[–] SheeEttin 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Because rightsholders have discretion about who they take action against. In this case, Nintendo doesn't want violence and Pokémon together, so it gets taken down. Minecraft is nonviolent (at least no more than Pokémon itself) so it gets a pass.

They would also take something down for being for-profit or competes with their own products (e.g AM2R being taken down right before Samus Returns came out).

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Nobody tell Nintendo about the Gardevoir mod for Kobold Kare. If they don't want them associated with violence, they probably really don't want them associated with being an egg shitting cum balloon

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Could the obvious symmetry between pals and pokemon not be leveraged as a political statement on the lore, and thus critique of the in-world enslavement of pokemon? The topic has already been covered in numerous "deep-dives" in written and visual media. So long as the creator of the mod starts being smarter than he has been so far, he could easily claim the mod is intended to be satirical, could he not?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 months ago

Even in parody works, you're inherently walking on eggshells. It needs to be a pretty direct and obvious ciritique of the original material. Something like PETA's Pokemon Red, White and Blue is unchallenged because its so unsubtle they'd have a reasonable defense. It would need to be a lot more than just a line in the mod description to give him a good defence. Even if it was as direct in it's criticism as PETA's game, just because he's legally probably covered, also doesn't mean he can't be taken to court, and unlike PETA, a mod-maker won't have a fortune to burn on an expensive fair-use lawsuit, nonetheless if its a riskier or more complicated case.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

Good explanation, thank you. It looks like fair use is a lot more limited than I had thought. And obviously not worth the risk for the average person to try and use as a defense.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

If they simply exported models from a Pokemon game and ported them to Palworld: That's a straight up, cut and dry copyright violation.

If he made them entirely by hand and just are the artist's own rendition of a real Pokemon... I'm not sure. Fanart is usually considered fair use, and it generally seems like that's how most mods are treated... But there is a chance that even a free, handmade Pokemon fan mod could damage sales of the actual Pokemon games if people think Palworld is a better Pokemon game than Pokemon. Based on that, they very well could have a case against it.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago (3 children)

It wasn't free is the problem. They were selling it on patreon from what I have heard.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago

In many countries, the question of profit doesn't matter as to whether it violates copyright or not. Who knows where the legal stuff would happen but I looked up Australia's copyright laws as well as I could and it seems similar to US copyright with the fact that it doesn't matter whether someone is profiting from it or not.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

Ah, thank you for that context, I didn't see any mention of Patreon in the article.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

They own all of the Pokemon characters. Any art using Pokemon characters is copyright infringement. Non-profit fan art using those characters is almost never fair use; it's just not worth addressing until it's more significant than a fan drawing Pikachu.

They probably would have sent the takedown regardless, but putting it behind a paywall was a huge red flag begging to be shut down even faster.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 9 months ago

Wait, this idiot announced a Pokemon mod without it actually being complete?

Block and ignore him immediately, he is just chasing clout.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago

The idea of a Pokemon mod is cool and all, but let's be real, Palworld did a better job with their monsters than Nintendo has been lately.

Flamenco? ...seriously?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Nintendo Ninjas are real. They come armed with wiimotes and nunchucks.