this post was submitted on 13 Jun 2023
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Can we get a consensus on whether our community should de-federate with servers that host loli? I personally think we should block them, and if that ends up not being the consensus here then I'll probably sign up on another server. I hope we can all agree to set that boundary though because I like it here and it seems otherwise pretty cool.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Please do not. Although I don't personally want to see lolicon stuff, many of the servers willing to host it have communities I want to interact with. For instance, burggit.moe is where the touhou communities went and is otherwise a pretty nice instance aside from loli communities.

It is content which, while understandably offensive to some, harms nobody. All fictional porn, no matter how deviant it is, is ultimately more ethical than real porn can be.

It should be up to users to block or hide instances with content they don't wish to see, and defederation should be reserved for communities that consistently cause interference, not for communities that simply have content which one disagrees with.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago
[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Yeah its a pretty nice experience on burggit other than the one or two loli communitys (that everyone can easily block for themselves)

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

why are all of the touhou communites on there

like, that's weird; there's tons of lemmy instances that they could have been on, and kbin has a (very inactive) community as well

onto the point:

All fictional porn, no matter how deviant it is, is ultimately more ethical than real porn can be.

This may be true, but you can't blame many users for being really turned off by it; like I think it'd be perfectly acceptable if most people don't want to interact with an instance hosting that.

If you don't like that, then you might have to move to another instance tbh

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Why not just leave it up to users on user by user basis? Are we already trying to regulate stuff on this platform? Block stuff if you don't like it, ignore if not. I'm by no means for loli personally, but that's going to start a snowball of overstepping and pretty soon it'll be like R where everything is locked, deleted, blocked, or hidden.

If it's not illegal, ignore it.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

No need to defederate. I just went and blocked loli and related communities that popped up. I will never see them again.

So, my vote is NAY.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

How exactly do I do that?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Would you say the same about a gore community?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I would block gore communities on a personal level, but there's no need to do so on a server level unless they're doing something worth defederating for, like any of the following:

  • posting cp
  • using their server to DoS/DDoS others
  • dox-ing people
  • allowing their users to harass others AND refusing to punish such behavior
  • same as above except for ban evasion

I'd like to have a force-nsfw option for communities that don't enforce proper usage of the NSFW tag, but for now I'd have to block them most likely.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I don't like gore, but I miss /r/watchpeopledie. I learned a lot from that.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Personally, I'm fine with a NSFW tag, and would hope that NSFW instances respect other instances enough to properly tag stuff.

Any instance with a gore community? Nah, screw that noise. Add it to the block list.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Tbh I think an instance not enforcing tagging content as nsfw is probably very strong grounds for blocking imo

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Federation is still young.

It may be easy to individually block communities now but what about in a few months/years when there are potentially 10x more communities across 10x more instances?

How intimidating would it be for a new user to have to go through 100+ communities and block them all individually instead of just blocking 5-10 instances?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Isn't that the point of decentralization allowing users to pick and choose what they want to see? If you don't want to see Loli all you have to do is block the server from your feed. I'm not a fan of Hentaiof any of its subs. But I digress, I'm not on your server so I guess I don't really have a say. 😁

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I am biased in this situation, but I just think leaving it to the individual to block specific communities is better than blocking an entire instance for every user.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Yeah blocking a whole instance because they allow something like that is definitely way over the top of a reaction.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Just block the communitys you don't want to see.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

For the sake of argument I’ll approach this from a different perspective than everyone else.

Depending on jurisdiction there might be implications in hosting an instance that is federated with instances that host loli. I’m not familiar enough with Canada’s laws and / or le Code Civil du Québec to know if it is considered CSAM, but assuming it is does federating with those communities replicate the media on this instance as well? Would this count as ‘redistributing it’?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Canada laws on CSAM are very strict. even written fictional text are considered csam by law definition. And yes, a known horror novel writer has been charged for csam production in a fiction book. he's been acquitted tho, fortunately. But that raise an alarm that tell us that cops can arrest you for pretty much anything . If you sculpt a loli into ficello string cheese , that enter the definition of CP in Canada.

there is a part of definition saying: "and other visual representation " which is very vague and broad .

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-163.1.html

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I dont think defederation is the way to go here. It could be another scenario that could be solve elegantly via a tagging system.

But I agree that stuff which is in a legal grey area or outright forbidden in many countries should not show per default on All. There already is a NSFW setting that you can activate and deactivate (this btw can solve the issue to 99% for you right now if you're willing to pass on other NSFW content).

There could be an additional setting to see things that "might be illegal in your country of residence" or simply NSFL. If you then mark such communities appropriatly it could solve the issue for people that want a) no exposure and b) no legal risk due to being shown such communities. And I count myself among those that dont want anything to do with loli or the likes.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I too would like the ability to block at the instance level as a user. Haven't come across loli, but @lemmynsfw.com does show up quite a bit when looking at All.

I have no problem at all with other sh.it.heads wanting to look at/interact with nsfw stuff from that instance, but I'm personally not interested. Given this, defederation seems extreme, but blocking on a community-by-community basis is time consuming and, as others have said, necessitates seeing the content to some degree (pretty sure you can choose whether stuff is blurred or not in your feed via the settings). I'd rather key '@lemmynsfw.com' into a block list once, and go back to what I'm doing.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Im afraid to ask, but what is loli? Definitely don’t feel like looking it up if people are that put off by it.

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