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Alt text:
A three panel meme of someone riding a bike.
- First panel: Someone riding on a bike. "Reddit is imploding, quick let's get on Lemmy"
- Second panel: The bike starts to tip over on its own. "Oh shit there's too many of us, we're being defederated?"
- Third panel: They've fallen on the ground by the bike, holding their knee in pain. "Fucking Beehaw"
The Beehaw admins have just been doing exactly what they said they would in their signup page and community guidelines, yet a large number of people seem to have gotten surprised that they kept their word.
I can’t speak for everyone on BeeHaw but the reason they do stuff like this is a feature rather than a bug for me, it’s not everyone’s cup of tea but the good thing about the fediverse is that the only parade we can really piss on is our own and there’s a diversity of instances to choose from which is a good thing. One ‘master instance’ would defeat the point of federation pretty catastrophically.
I think past 10 years social media has been “grooming” the average internet user into becoming enraged at the slightest deviation from status quo and that’s what we’re seeing here. Rage means clicks means revenue for companies. People now become oddly obsessed with the silliest of things - well MY instance is superior, well MY video game is superior, well MY phone is superior. You get the idea. We all need to take a deep breath and chill the fuck out.
Assuming the surprised people even read the guidelines.
We've had users from other instances complain about it, not even recognizing that they are doing so on our thread, to our users, on our instance. Every single one of these users is not following our rules - they're extremely emotionally charged and telling us that we're terrible people (bad faith, not nice).
I understand that the fediverse can be difficult to understand and that the user interface is not the most user friendly, but also why are they so upset about what's happening somewhere else that they have no control over? The strength of the emotions they are feeling over such an abstract idea (an instance they are not on defederating from another instance that they are also not on) that doesn't even effect them, is just bizarre to me.
Bold to assume people can actually read!
Yeah this is 100% why I signed up for beehaw. This is the sort of administration I was hoping for, not some betrayal.
I'm not on beehaw, but I'm also not on an instance defederated from beehaw
I read the list of instances blocked by beehaw, and I've gotta say you're not missing anything
Exactly!
My initial Lemmy account is on another instance, and some reactions I have seen to Beehaw defederating it have me... Displeased. Maybe it's because I am an internet grandma who used to use three dozens phpbb forums at the same time, but protecting one's community is entirely fucking okay and the "snowflakes" talk is exhausting.
100% agree and I just can't understand why so many are going nuts over it the way they are. They're so reactionary and ridiculous it makes me wonder if they read the actual reasons why (or even understood them.)
Aaaand that's why they're out. boot emoji
The reddit influx brings good but also redditors' usual bullshit along with it.
I love that beehaw is looking out for us and maintaining a space where it feels like people with differing opinions can actually talk about things with nuance and without feeling like they'll set off a landmine at any minute.
I'm still in disbelief, for some reason we can have a nice place here
I think past 10 years social media has been “grooming” the average internet user into becoming enraged at the slightest deviation from status quo and that’s what we’re seeing here. Rage means clicks means revenue for companies. Open internet doesn’t need revenue and doesn’t encourage rage.
People are used to absolute convenience but don't realize it always comes with consessions
To me it feels like the tantrum you see when someone who behaves badly is called out for it. They all almost immediately try to flip it around like they're the victims. Pretty much just thinking of it as a toddler throwing a tantrum and it'll make a lot more sense.
I'm sure it's not news to you, but anytime you see someone trying to squash discussion or the like with terms like "snowflake", they're just projecting and letting you know that they're fragile.
I personally don't want reddit #2.
Beehaw is all the rave and currently single handedly destroying [insert newest thing here] everywhere all at once, apparently.
It's weird to me people are upset they can't come crap it up with their vitriol when there are endless other places to do that. I realize it's definitely not everyone doing that, but still...
"Lemme in so I can be needlessly hostile while enjoying your nice community but also ignoring everything it stands for / is about."
No, go away. 🤨
Honestly it's my..... 2nd or 3rd? Day on Beehaw and I'd rather have a community where you need to pass a vibe check instead of a free for all like Reddit and Twitter.
Yup. There are a whole host of awful groups I do not want to interact with even tangentially through a second or tertiary community. I much prefer this setup.
I'm liking beehaw as is
I fully agree. Beehaw is just sabotaging the chances of the lemmyverse getting to a self-sustaining population.
Not sure if I agree; sustainably can be different things for different people. For some it might be that the platform has a large number of users, but for Beehaw it is to have a safe community without bigots and trolls. It’s not sustainable for targeted individuals if they are met with hate speech, racism, transphobia etc every time they visit social media.
The Beehaw about pages explain their philosophy in more detail: https://beehaw.org/post/439918
The beauty of the fediverse is, if someone on Beehaw doesn't agree with their administrative decisions, they can just make an account on another instance.
Yeah, being part of an instance means you're trusting them to moderate content (as with individual subreddits/communities/magazines). It's a good thing. Maybe if down the line one instance gets so huge that it's basically "the one" it could be a problem but if the fediverse keeps things relatively spread out it's fine.
Not only that, but the ability to run your own instance to have full control over those decisions.
Defederation is a key feature of the fediverse. This is probably the politest defederation I've ever seen. I'm glad this is the first on Lemmy because if this kind of thing bothers people, they'll be in for a rude awakening once we get some real defederation drama.
And you can't have federated software without defederation, just wait till someone starts setting up massive numbers of throwaway spambot accounts
It's not the responsibility of one instance to get the threadiverse into a "self-sustaining population"
Specially when say community is:
• Comprised mostly of marginalized people.
• not completely open to registration, but requires your solicitation to register to be approved by an admin/mod
• choosing quality over quantity, and has no intention to grow so much or to become a Reddit replacement.
There are more than 300 instances on Lemmy alone (to that you have to add the kbin instances, of which I don't know the number)
The problem here, and what really is stopping any kind of growth, is the lack of distribution. People are going to the same 5 communities and expecting them to be responsible for all the content creation (by hosting communities/magazines), when part of federation is the ability for every instance to have their own community for a topic.
sweats in kbin
I don't think you have anything to worry about; Kbin hasn't really been a huge vector (afaik) for spam/harassment. It's just those two instances in particular which were ballooning and creating a moderation challenge but all the admins are in conversation about pressing for better tools and refederating come that day
makes sense. kbin actually got quite a lot of users, 30k over these past few days. I think it's half the amount lemmy got? though kbin users might be a bit more reserved and polite haha. we were also offline the first few days which I think also helped. trolls like lemmy better I guess.
No worries. When asked if they'd defed kbin they simply answered "I don't even know you" lol
That means we're not causing anyone problems, good job team!
To be clear there are problematic users on nearly every instance. I've had to moderate quite a few kbin users, but it's not standing out from the pack as a particularly problematic place as of this moment.
Does account migration work in this part of the fediverse? I know on Mastadon you can move instances pretty easily.
Not currently, but it's been on the radar as a feature request. Not sure if anyone is actively working on it right now though.
Imma be honest, Beehaw feels empty in comparison to the other instances and they've made some weird decisions (no downvotes?). Why am I even here when browsing world in my browser not even logged in seemed to be an infinitely better experience... I don't get this place
I guess you haven't seen what ANY community in Lemmy looked like before May 28th. Relative to today it was a barren wasteland in terms of content numbers, whereas in terms of community feel it was tight-knit and cozy. The busiest communities had like 5 or 6 posts a day, most with 0 to a handful of comments each. Whole instances like Beehaw and lemmy.ml might each have had around 20 posts or so a day on a good day.
Beehaw's top priority has been to keep that cozy feeling of friendliness and community even as we have grown more than 10x in size. It's not easy, and being a copy of Reddit or seeking mainstream levels of growth isn't part of Beehaw's current vision, as far as I've read into the admins' treatises on Beehaw ethos.
It doesn't feel empty to me, personally (just thought I'd be clear that this is only my opinion) but it is definitely somewhat slower than Reddit or some of the other Lemmy and Kbin instances that are out there. IMO, I think a lot of people coming to Beehaw who're acculturated to Big Social or Big Social-ish experiences are inevitably disappointed with the amount of content because it's not a massive stream of content being funneled into your feed anymore.
But I've been on the Fediverse (Mastodon, Lemmy, etc.) for about four years now and gotten used to the slower flow, that going to Reddit or some other Lemmy instances or Twitter now feels like I'm drowning or being inundated/overwhelmed with content which flows faster than I can give a due-diligence response to. Either I could say nothing, just vote, write a one-off low-effort response, get in a heated debate, or try to take the time to write something more thoughtful (and then by the time I was done with that, the moment would already have past or I'd get some smart-ass reply that would end the engagement for me). Plus there are some concessions involved in getting all that content delivered to you.
Some people like that but it's just not really for me anymore, it doesn't feel healthy. I like being able to slow down and actually talk to people, and I like that I can trust I'll see them again later. I like that I can post something and no matter whether it's popular or not, someone will engage, even if it takes time.
On the other part, I don't really understand how no downvotes is a "weird" decision; it's definitely not uncommon considering some of the subreddits I participated in on Reddit did the same thing. But in any event, Beehaw does have some posts/comments around explaining the reason for certain choices.
Beehaw is for the people who want a safe, friendly place, no one's twisting your arm to be here. People here still have different views and people still argue. It just isn't vitriolic.