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[Teenager 13-19] Need some advice with 18 y/o (lemmy.ml)
submitted 10 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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I'm going to try and keep this clear and concise.

I'm not confident in my parenting. I don't feel like I've been a good parent, but I have done the best that I can with the tools and resources that I have.

My 18 y/o has lived with us since she was 4. My partner has been in my 18y/o's life since they were 13 months old.

18y/o is copy->paste of their deadbeat mother and I don't know what to do about it. I don't know what I can do about it at this point.

I have tried to instill structure, while allowing wiggle room at times. I recognize that it's my job as the parent to draw hard lines and it's my kids job to push the boundaries and cross those lines.

18y/o is almost mute around us. Doesn't communicate much of anything beyond surface level 'pleasantries'. And it's more often than not, anything but pleasant. They (biological female) are diagnosed with ADHD, 'change disorder', anxiety and depression. I've done so much reading trying to figure out this person and how I can help, but nothing seems to help. Kid has never really be honest with therapists. Lies for no reason, and doubles down even when presented with irrefutable evidence that they've been caught. If I had to 'self-diagnose', they have ODD and are a sociopath, but I've seen how they behave around friends and peers. They only have disregard for us. Outside the home, they are a people pleaser. But if we suggest something, or ask for something to be done, it's a fight, every time.

They are a senior in high school, is a good student when there's nothing rocking their boat, but had steadily declining grades as the school year presses on. I have no idea what's going on in their life, everything is responded to with a random selection of the following list:

I don't know

I don't remember

I don't know how you want me to answer that

Do you want me to respond?

I don't see what the problem is.

I don't see how this is a big deal.

The current argument is regarding whether we should be expected to wake them up for school in the morning. I've already put my foot down about it, and since December 1st, they've already walked themselves to school twice because they overslept.

They are impossible to motivate. When things finally come to a head and an argument breaks out, which typically boils over because there can be no constructive conversation with someone who is either unable or unwilling to have a conversation. And only when the argument breaks out do we get any action on anything, and then it's an overcorrection. For example, we've been pushing for them to fill out scholarship applications for 8 months. We've had friends provide spreadsheets with links to what we collectively think are viable scholarships, for no action responses. Then when we finally get a break in the wall, they fill out scholarship applications for tens of thousands of dollars for enrollment in a school states away with misleading GPA information. We are not in a financial position to accommodate that kind of enrollment, even if we wanted to support the decision. It comes off as an "I'll show them" move.

Nevermind the drivers license thing. Can't get them to get off their ass and get their license. It's been a battle for 2 years. Something always goes wrong. Last time I pressed on it hard, we ended up in intensive outpatient therapy.

They're unmanageable and I don't know what to do for or with them. Our home is small, 800 sqft and it's a hell hole. My partner has almost left me twice over this kid's behavior over the years. Partner and kid do not get along at all at this point, and has lead to a false CPS report so my kid could try and move in with their crush's family.

There so much context missing but there's no time or room for 18 years of back story.

I don't know if there's a question here, but I need help or support, or something. Any stories or advice anyone cares to relay would be appreciated. I'm terrified that once this kid leaves, I'm never going to hear from them again. But I can't control that, and I recognize it.

Thanks for reading.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 10 months ago (2 children)

I think there's a lot that you aren't telling us. You seem to focus a lot on their behavior and on the behavior of their mother (who isn't in the picture, is that right?), but are not giving much of a description of how you or your partner behave towards them, beyond the forceful adjectives like 'push', 'press', and 'drill'. That's a huge element, as it takes two to tango in relationships.

You also speak of them in extremely derogatory terms like "getting them off their ass" or "not letting them freeload like their deadbeat bio mom" or calling them a fucking sociopath??? I can only imagine that they pick up on that lack of respect for them and respond accordingly. Kids aren't stupid.

It seems like you have a lot of unresolved issues that you might be taking out on them and if possible I would echo the other commentor recommending therapy—but for YOU, as an individual.

This could have been written about me by the parents I do not speak to anymore.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

This could have been written about me by the parents I do not speak to anymore.

Samesies. And it can be said the same about my kid by me. Fortunately he’s only 4. That’s why I’m in therapy.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

That is so awesome, I'm glad you're in therapy and working on yourself. It's hard to unlearn those toxic behaviors. I'm expecting my first and am trying to find one for myself; my biggest fear is treating mine like I was treated because it's the only parenting model I know. Thankfully my spouse comes from a much more loving environment and has helped me so much just by being an example of how a supportive family should function.

Wishing you and your family the best

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Story time.

The really funny thing is that the turning point in my relationship with my parents was when I googled a friends name. He was a musician.

I had a CD of his that I lost in a car that I sold to a rando on Craigslist a few years prior to our story.

When I googled him I found a blog where he had started documenting restoring this car (a 1990 Volvo wagon, of all things). He had found my friends CD. The blog went dark after only a few posts but I was intrigued. He catalogued a few other things of mine he found in the car, namely a wig that I used in a costume, and an herb grinder (which he documented as a wig-care-product) and I was amused at the stories he was coming up with for my stuff.

Googled the guy. Found him on an enthusiasts forum for this type of car (honestly the internet is an amazing thing).

Found a post from him from where he was introducing himself and plugging the aforementioned blog a couple days after the first blogpost.

In the post, he talked at length about the process of buying the car, including a very specific anecdote from when we test drove it.

I wasn’t home to actually handle the sale of the car. My dad was. And apparently my dad ranted to this complete stranger about how much of a shit kid I am. In so much length and detail that this random person felt the need to retell his rant on the internet to countless other random strangers, including me…said shit kid.

That rant sounded exactly like op.

Next place my mind went…what are the odds that of all the random strangers my dad meets in a day, and out of all the people in his actual circle, the only one he vented to about me would also write a post documenting it for me to stumble on by accident? Probably zero. Ergo he must’ve been talking shit about me to anyone who would listen.

In retrospect I admit I was a shit kid (well, presenting as a shit kid). But in retrospect I also realize that I was through a pit of depression and anxiety and a ton of shit that came along with it. And later diagnosed with ADHD. In retrospect, it should have been painfully obvious to anyone, but especially my parents. But instead of doing anything constructive, it was met with hostility and anger and resentment, and fights constantly broke out over petty shit.

Thats why I feel fine admitting that I was absolutely acting shitty at the time, but I don’t feel fine repairing that bridge after reading all the things he said about me to a complete stranger. What a massive gut punch it is to read such hurtful things about you, from your own father, on a public forum.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

I understand where you're coming from, and yes, there's 18 years of context missing. I'm self aware enough to recognize that this comment has made me a little defensive. I had hoped that by providing some additional context throughout the conversations I've been having all day would fill in some of the gaps but I also understand that these are conversations and not necessarily followed by everyone who has been kind enough to send their opinions.

Defensively, I'm speaking out of frustration and emotion, to a space that doesn't involve my teen. That should have some weight in this conversation, but your criticism is valid nonetheless.

The short condensed version is that it's been 13 years lying, deceitful and sneaky behavior, provable fabrication of events, and denials of truths. 13 years of being told by professionals that we need to stop berating the teen to which we've been forced to send pocket recordings of events to professionals to disprove what our teen has been telling them was fact. Our teen asks for nothing, expects everything, and doesn't say please or thank you. We did not raise them this way. Those lessons have either been forgotten or flat out abandoned in their disdain for us.

Our teen doesn't respect us, our home, our rules. We're not allowed to expect anything of them, yet they expect everything from us, and without question. Obviously there's a certain level of providing that a parent is expected to do for their children, but an 18 year old senior in high school is trying to tell me that it's expected of me to wake them up at 6:30 in the morning if they sleep through their alarm because they were up all night playing fortnite or hanging out on discord. I don't think so.

And to clarify, I didn't call them a "fucking sociopath". Sociopathy is a clinical phrase. Would you feel better if I called it ASPD or anti-social personality disorder? Like I get it, beinc called a sociopath has been bastardized by slang, but it's still a diagnosis. Albeit, maybe a little antiquated.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago (4 children)

Please realize, you're accusing them of being like this since they were 5 years old. They were barely more than a baby. Of course they're going to lie, they were a little kid. Of course they weren't going to follow your rules to a T, they were a little kid. They had no ulterior motives, and yet you've completely demonized them as if they did. Since they were FIVE dude.

You're speaking of them like they are 35 and you've been dealing with their shit for 13 years, but they were only 4 or 5 when you too them in. You've been raising a child that you've been treating as if they're a monster and are shocked that they don't respect or like you very much.

Yes, I am aware that you didn't use the word "fucking" before calling them a sociopath. That was my own emphasis on not being able to believe that you'd rather believe that of your child instead of having empathy for them. I think you're trying to hide behind breaking everything down to seem very logical to try and rationalize your actions/behavior towards your child over the years.

Again, as a child that came from a similar environment, if you have any wish of salvaging this relationship, I would focus heavily on some introspection and accountability, and hope they'd be willing to accept some sort of apology in the future. I really wouldn't be surprised if they were angry at you for a long time.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 months ago

it’s been 13 years lying, deceitful and sneaky behavior, provable fabrication of events, and denials of truths

Okay, but that's just typical child-with-ADHD. Show me a child with ADHD and I'll show you a liar who fabricates events and denies truths.

Would you like to know why? Read on!

Because the child with ADHD has been held to standards that are absolutely completely out of whack with who they are biologically (yes ADHD is a biology condition which is why medication is effective). But being children, they aren't able to articulate. So they lie because it 'makes the problem go away'. What problem?

The parent asking them if they've done their homework. They say yes instead of -- No, I haven't done my homework yet because despite wanting to, I cannot get my body to cooperate with my desires. I absolutely intend to have it done by the time it is due, I'm a good child who enjoys homework and wants to meet those expectations. I'll do it as soon as my body starts following my brain's directions and sits down/picks up a pencil. If I tell you I haven't done it yet, you'll ask me, "Why?" and I just cannot explain to you because though TheInfamousJ is able to type all this out, that's because she's 22 years my senior so has learned a lot of metacognition I don't have seeing as how my brain isn't even finished developing yet. I don't have the words. So yes, Dad [or whatever parent you are], I've done my homework because by tomorrow afternoon this statement will be true anyway and it saves me from having to deal with your ish about me, my brain, and how completely unacceptable it and I am to you. ...... except that time where my body starts following my brain's directions? It never came before the homework was due. I need help. But you are punishing me rather than assisting me.

and so it goes

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (4 children)

You talked an awful lot about your kid.

How are you doing?

Your 18yo sounds like a grown up version of my 4.5 year old. Honestly if you said the arguments were about potty training we’d be talking about the same person.

How were they, when they started living with you full time, with regards to pottying? Difficult? Regressive? Headstrong?

I ask because how you are doing, because I started seeing a therapist for my own struggles with parenting. And it’s probably the best thing I’ve ever done. It really gives a chance to reflect and get honest constructive feedback on how I approach and handle interactions and discipline and whatnot. Most importantly, how to deal with stresses of parenting a difficult kid and not criticize yourself too harshly at every setback.

Please, if you haven’t already, consider a therapist for you, preferably one who specializes in family issues.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago

Not much to add to the topic, but just wanted to point out that you shouldn't really 'self-diagnose' as you call it. For example 'sociopath' is not really a diagnosis anymore.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

The kid's an adult now. In my household that would mean a place to live at long as they are in school full time, working full time, or convince me that their alternative is actually reasonable. You also have a list of basic chores for them that are fair based on an even split. Other than that you get the help you ask for. It sounds like the lesson your kid needs to learn now is how to cope with things after your parents stop micromanaging you and it all falls apart.

To get to that point you have to be willing to let everything fall apart. If they move out to couch surf, or be homeless, or something else, you tell them you love them and if they ever want help you will welcome then back and help them figure things out.

But until they want that, they won't take it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago (2 children)

This is helpful to me. It reminds me a of a conversation I've had with with a friend with a similar neuro divergent family member. So thank you for the reminder.

How can we as a family unit enforce those basic chores to be completed? It's been a trigger fest for ten years and has been the number one issue in our home. Chores are never and have never been done without becoming a problem. I've never done the roommate thing so this kind of conflict resolution isn't something I've ever dealt with.

My issues stem from my teens expectations of me. They expect me to wake them up for school or expect me to pick them up from work. It's absurd.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

It sounds like the lesson your kid needs to learn now is how to cope with things after your parents stop micromanaging you and it all falls apart.

This sounds like something my therapist helped me realize about both my kid and myself.

When things come easy and naturally, we (my kid and myself, possibly your kid as well) appear as rockstars, and we feel as rockstars. We get recognized and praised for things that we excel at with little effort.

Thats great and all…until effort is needed. And then panic. And the natural response to that is fight/flight/freeze.

Compounding that, we let perfect be the enemy of good. Subliminally, failing with minimal effort is more acceptable to us than putting in a ton of effort for anything that won’t stroke our egos more than something that comes easily.

This is basically perfectionism.

Now, add ADHD to that and you’ve got quite a mess. You’ve got someone who can easily hyperfocus on things that you don’t want/need them to do, because they get that sweet sweet dopamine…and they are going to hyperfocus because it’s so much easier than working hard and not getting the dopamine.

Honestly I don’t think there’s much to do for it except realization and cognitive behavior therapy. For both of you. Your part is equally important. If they complete a task you need to show honest appreciation for it, even the small stuff. Your tone in these posts comes across as a bit frustrated and fed up. If that tone carries across to your conversation with your kid, they will pick up on that and it’ll contribute to the feedback loop…”why should I even bother if dad doesn’t care”.

Celebrating small victories (tincluding he “participation trophies” that boomers love to joke about while they themselves popularized them) isn’t about empty gestures or making everybody feel special just for warm and fuzzies. It’s a subtle psychological trick to prevent exactly what you’re facing.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

Regarding the chores, I'd say you can't require it, but in my household that would have been where my allowance money comes from. No chores, no money.

They will have to make a choice, maybe several. Your job right now is to let them learn what consequences each choice brings with it so they can start learning to chart their own course.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

I had started to write a lengthy response on mobile before others had commented, but after the conversations which were had, most of that is now unneeded.

The short version is: After high school, if you have any relatives willing to take her in, send her that way. It'll be much better for everyone.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I would also try to get someone in her life that she will listen to.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago

It's not that she doesn't listen, it's just that she hasn't been given a reason to care. I'd imagine that at some point(s) through the years, she did try to 'be better', only for it not to match up with expectations, and subsequently learned that being absent as much as possible would yield easier results to handle.

And on her plus side, at least she actually has something she wants to do/be after school and with the right encouragement, could actually avoid the years of meandering I went through from living in a very similar situation during my teenage years.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

The only thing I can offer you is that motivation isn't the currency of the ADHD brain. Importance isn't the currency of the ADHD brain. The only currency of the ADHD brain is INTEREST. As in, "Oh, this is interesting to me."

It sounds as if school isn't capturing their interests. Can changes be made so that school is interesting? Harder classes? Different electives? Anything?

And trust me, you don't want unmanaged ADHD behind the wheel of a car. There's a reason we of the ADHD brain have a shorter life expectancy on average, and that's because the deaths that bring down the average are almost all vehicularly related. I'd back off that expectation until the ADHD is under control.

Is there a psychiatrist in play? Medication ought to be lowering the activation energy/removing or easing the barrier-to-action between your child and the things they are interested in and actually want to do, and it sounds as if that isn't happening.

As a parent with ADHD and a parenting coach with lots of experience parenting ADHD children (though none my bio kids; my own bio kid is too young for their ADHD to be any of the known struggles) -- You have to back down, not ride harder. Sure, one of the ways to overcome the barrier-to-action is unholy terror which puts in place fight-or-flight and can get one over the barrier BUT existing in that state endlessly is super duper bad and leads to serious hard burnout and trauma from constantly being The Problem. I know that riding them has been effective thus far, but under the hood, the way it has been effective has done long term harms. As a family, you all need to learn new management and coping skills. You need to stop overfunctioning. Family therapy (which is different in nature than couples therapy or individual therapy) is the direction to go here. ADHD isn't a person's problem, it's a family problem. Especially when it involves a child who need parents to teach and guide them in to how to exist as prosocially as possible with the brain they never asked for but nonetheless were given. You aren't teaching them how to exist with their brain, you are teaching them how to exist with your brain; they don't have your brain. ADHD isn't a malfunctioning neurotypical brain any more than neurotypicality is a malfunctioning ADHD brain. Both are okay and both are different. Think horses and zebras - both okay, both different, both rideable, both with manes and tails, both with hooves, both about the same size, but a zebra is not a malfunctioning horse nor a horse a malfunctioning zebra. A horse cannot teach the zebra how to horse, it would be bad for the zebra.

My own Mother called my ADHD Father some names (deadbeat is the one you chose to call) and when I realized I related to my Father due to same neurotype, I realized two things: (a) my mother would call me a deadbeat too simply because she doesn't know how to coexist with a neurodivergent person and so her response is disgust and shaming and (b) living in the house with her was going to be supremely traumatic to me because she's going to take out her discomfort and ignorance on me in the worst ways. I got out of the house. Your child has not.

Might I suggest that your education come from ADDitude Magazine's webinar series? It is free as a podcast. And I would like to extend an invitation to you to join the How to ADHD Discord as there is a whole parenting section for advice on parenting ADHD children as well as another section called "Hearts asking Brains". You, not having ADHD, would be a heart. And the adult ADHD brains can offer insights you might not otherwise have been exposed to.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

ADHD isn’t a person’s problem, it’s a family problem

I'm going to hard disagree with you there. I think I understand where you're coming from, but it's wholly unacceptable to ask and expect society to bend to the needs of a neuro divergent person specifically with regard to ADHD. I'll concede that ADHD is a family problem when a person is younger and trying to find their way in the world, but at some point the afflicted needs to figure out how to deal with their neurodivergence and work within the world, and however that looks to them.

If I can be so bold, reading through your comments is frustrating, because while you might be a parent with ADHD (while assuming I'm not familiar with the struggles), and a parenting coach, it's clear to me that as a parent of a younger child, you very well may learn something you don't expect to in the years to come. It's easier to be an expert with regard to other peoples struggles on the internet. Some people are more compassionate, some people are more patient. But everyone has a limit. I don't believe you've found yours yet and I hope that you never do.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

In the future, stick to your lane. This post, is helpful. You've responded to different lines of conversation and different levels of presence (and patience) in my communications with other people. At this point, after reading posts in which you've attacked me, why would I consider anything you've said? I understand that you might advertise as a parenting coach, but respectfully, you have a terrible way of framing your advice on a forum, especially if coming late to the party. You've responded to me emotionally, isn't that like the number one thing they teach you not to do as a coach or therapist?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

It sounds like they are at the point where they don't want to be at home. It also sounds like you are the only one still trying to get through as your partner and kid are both done with each other. Why are you holding on?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

I was a young teenager with depression and had a psychotic break. It was probably the hardest point in my life (I'm now a 36 year old father). Your child sounds like they might be having an extremely hard time computing all the changes they're going though, and possibly having identity issues. It's gotta be hard.

It sounds like you're doing the best you can, I wouldn't be too hard on yourself. One thing my dad did for me when I was younger was tell me if I ever needed anything, if I ever needed an exit because there was stress I couldn't talk about he was there and there would be no questions asked.

If you can't get a word in, maybe write them a letter and let them know how you feel. Let them know that you're concerned, but if they need space then don't worry, just let them know you're there for them. They must be going through something and if they need anything - you're there for them. They are just becoming an adult, I wouldn't dismiss them as becoming like their birth mother or as someone you cannot see eye to eye with, that would drive a wedge between you. They are figuring out who they are and what being an adult is. Life is really hard, and for some people it begins to be hard as soon as our adolescence begins.

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