this post was submitted on 18 Dec 2023
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This should really be standard. (startrek.website)
submitted 11 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[–] [email protected] 78 points 11 months ago (1 children)

doesn't everyone kinda do that already? on every interview I always try to get a hint on how it is to work there... and if the vibes are not there I just stop.

Once I was getting weird vibes in an interview, there was one "boss" and two "engineers" (quotes because they were probably all engineers, just that the roles were quite clear) and I interrupted the interview to ask the engineers "are you happy working there?" and they basically didn't answer with words, but their faces were very transparent... so yeah, I didn't "call them back" lol (or rather the next time they did I turned them down)

normally I'm a bit more subtle though.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I don't know if that's the best question, thiugh.

First, if you're going to put them on the spot like that, in the middle of a room with their supervisor nearby, and ask them a question they weren't anticipating, the response is probably going to be a bit odd.

But frankly, I don't think I've ever been "happy" working anywhere, even in my current position. I get paid well, good benefits, work load isn't too much, people are nice, etc. but I'm not "happy" working there. I won't be "happy" working anywhere. Cause I'm working, and working does not make me happy.

That's almost the inverse of the shitty interview question "Why do you want to work here?" It's a ridiculous question for the majority of people in the majority of cases. "Cause I need money and your hiring."

I think a better question would be "Are content here? Are you heard, compensated, and treated well?"

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

for the compensation and such there is the later negotiation, so I don't need much info.

What I aim to understand is the working environment, and the reason for me to ask that was because there were 2 people working while doing my interview at the same time, which was kinda giving it away. I don't tend to plan stuff like this, and as I was saying I tend to be more subtle, this just came to my mind spontaneously and went with it, and was very telling in this particular case.

Regarding happiness, I'm so sorry for you if you really think is impossible, honestly I'm quite happy with my current position. I would rather be touching my balls on the beach? yeah probably, but when it comes to work I'm happy and have always been in most my positions (and when that changed I found something else), I always have been a computer geek and have been able to do many "fun" things during my career though. Reading the internet though, I seem to be in the minority as most people tend to sound very depressed, which saddens me..

But I would encourage you to think which kind of work would make you happy and try to pursue it, you spend a lot of time there after all. If you have a job now you even do the search from a position of power, so interviewing is not that bad.

[–] [email protected] 60 points 11 months ago (2 children)

You absolutely can and should.

Entry level, probably will get denied.

But if you're applying to management or significant roles that are typically hired slow, you absolutely should ask to talk with other employees.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Tried that one time and they said they wouldn't put me in touch with anyone that worked at that location until I accepted the position. Social media pulled through on that one and I managed to talk to people there anyways, but thought I was dumb that I had to go behind their backs to get it done

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It's really dumb to not let people talk to existing employees, when sites like glassdoor exist. Particularly because it's blatantly obvious when they're trying to pad out favorable reviews. But it's actually more convincing in person.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Or Facebook. There's a very large Facebook group and it's a small world within my industry. I made a post and got a direct message from the lead the next day.

That said, thinking back, the dude was kind of a tool so that may be why they didn't want me to talk to him lol

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

That's a red flag if a company is unable to connect you with workers.

Maybe my ego is massive because I'm in a industry that gets thousands of recruiters emailing me. But I've gotten very short with head hunters/recruiters/HR folks who think they're offering me a "opportunity" when really, it's a two way street or communication.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

I agree. Unfortunately, it's one of the largest companies within that sector of my industry, and probably within the industry as a whole, so getting short with them could severely limit future opportunities.

That said, where there's a will, there's a way.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Yeah, but you can be sure that anyone who tells you the truth about a bad working environment will be fired shortly thereafter for "attendance issues" or any number of other bogus reasons.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 11 months ago

I've been the person to talk to interviewees before. I told them the good and the bad. We feel it's better to be upfront and let them make an informed choice rather than hiring them only to have them quit in a year or two.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

No one is going to loudly tell you "this job sucks brah", but get a name and hit them up on LinkedIn.

Plus any feedback that not positive is probably negative. Damning with faint praise, etc.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Absolutely! You can also attempt to “listen between the lines” when talking with them.

They may say something like, “management will order us anything we want for dinner” as a positive. But to me this is a red flag, as I should not need to have dinner ordered for me regularly, or ever.

Take that concept and attempt to translate their words into reality.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

During one talk, they shared that they "Sometimes have to work during holidays." He then backtracked and said, "It's not often though!"

Without naming the employee, during a future interview, I asked about work balance and they also hinted that sometimes, work does bleed into weekends and holidays.

Pretty easy nope.

If a job can't get the work done without overworking on holidays, it's a clear sign that they're understaffed or have shitty management who don't push back against due dates.

[–] [email protected] 58 points 11 months ago (1 children)

No shit, during interviews one of my go to questions is why is this elrole empty? New hire or backfill? Did the person put in their notice? If they're still here... Can I talk to them?

Almost always got straight answers, and they actually had me meet the person leaving.

[–] [email protected] 52 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I asked "why is this role empty" when interviewing for my current job.

The interviewer looked sad and explained that he had died a couple of months prior. Oops.

Still a good question to ask.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Definitely the next question is "what of"

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago

"askin too many questions, see"

[–] [email protected] 39 points 11 months ago (1 children)

LoL, one time, amusing myself, when I was handing my ID over to the Bouncer at the Bar, I thought, I should ask for his ID. Dude got seriously upset at the request.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 11 months ago (1 children)

UK bouncers have to wear their licence on an armband for this reason.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 11 months ago

The "do you have any questions for us" part of the interview is the opportunity to get a feel for the company if you hadn't had it already, if you're past the stage of HR boxcheckers and talking to people in and around the team you'll actually be working with.

If you're in that industry already, then you'll get to know enough people who aren't quiet about their experiences at other companies, good or bad.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 11 months ago

I would also like to talk to 3 of their unhappy employees.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I'm an employer and I absolutely do suggest talking to my employees to my candidates

[–] [email protected] 11 points 11 months ago

A decent employer will be proud to showcase their employees. Building healthy relationships and a nurturing work environment is the stock and trade of good management.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 11 months ago

I have been through a few interviews in developer jobs. Typically I am put through a conversation with HR, then someone representing the leadership, then a couple of developers. In each conversation I'm highly encouraged to ask questions.

So in my opinion, the employers are extremely firm with pushing their references upon me.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 11 months ago

Jobs that ask for references should be prohibited from having a "no references" policy. That is to say if you ask for references, you must also give references when asked.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

um... that's the interview process. you most likely already do. well maybe not happy per se ... point stands though.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Employees. Not the people employing them, who are interested in employing you, and have an obvious interest in appearing as appealing as possible to you.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago

not sure if in other fields, but you'll be surprised how much you can guess from a technical interview in engineering (not the HR ones of course)

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Not sure how reliable they are but rate my employer type websites do exist:

https://www.ratemyemployer.ca/Home

https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/index.htm

https://indeed.com/companies

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Honestly neither direction really makes sense. You'd have to be one hell of a bad candidate not to be able to come up with three people that will positively talk about you. Likewise it would have to be an incredibly s*** job for them not to be able to find three people in the company that wouldn't speak well to it.

The whole point of references is absolutely ridiculous.

Just bring them in for half a day, spend half the time figuring out if they can do the job, spend the other half the time having them mingle with everyone. Women, men, straight, LHBTQ+. Take them out to lunch, make sure you have some people there that aren't super thick-skinned in the crowd.

If a decent sized crew of your people can't figure out if they're an asshole in 4 hours chances are they're not an asshole.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

The beautiful thing is: that half a day works in 2 directions.

At my company, we also like to let the person get to know 2 or 3 teams that could all use a new co-worker. As a result, the new hire can also request the team if they had a preference.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

I’ve done a lot of tech recruiting. Reference checks are invaluable, especially if you do them over the phone (instead of email/text).

People are wired to be honest, even about the faults of their friends. Tone of voice, pauses and side comments are often the most useful parts.

By the time you’re checking references you’re not normally trying to determine if the candidate is psycho or incompetent, you’re trying to figure out the specifics. Are they going to be a good fit for the team? How will they handle the stresses, structures, or freedoms of the role? What kind of support are they likely to need and can the team realistically provide it?

And to OP, yes. Absolutely, ask to meet with employees. Ask the hard questions, you’ll probably get surprisingly candid responses.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

We get so many stupid online forms that people send us as a reference chack for past employees.

Like, just call us and we can answer your questions. Do your job HR person from some random company.

We don't appreciate having to sit down for 20 minutes In our workday having to fill out a form with mundane questions and rating scales that no one really cares all that much about. We aren't being paid to hire those people. Call us and we can get it over with in 5 minutes. Drive us nuts when a company sends us those stupid forms.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago

You absolutely should. It's easy to find people by company on LinkedIn.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago

Please enter you credit card details... no, you show me yours first

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Anyone that says "jobs be asking" is right off my list if candidates.