German here. It's weird, isn't it? Israel did not exist when Hitler had the power and millions of Jews were killed. On the other hand, a Russian Jew would have been a prime target for the Nazis. Strange that the German government still feels like it has to be more supportive of the state Israel than of Jews themselves.
this post was submitted on 17 Dec 2023
153 points (96.9% liked)
News
23014 readers
5 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
I never got that as well. ARD and ZDF do the same. See the latest ZDF Magazin Royale. It starts to denounce everyone who uses the current situation to disguise their antisemitism, yet ends up in a weird tone where everyone who isn't for Israel (because German history) is antisemitic, at least a little bit, right?
Really fucking weird. How do we have to support Israel doing some effed up shit because our forefathers worse shit to their forefathers?! I don't get it. And how am I antisemitic when I am against what that nation does? I mean, I love my Mom, but if she started to indiscriminately kill civilians, I'd be pretty opposed to that.
I am not a fucking antisemite, I don't care about any religion or ethnicity in the slightest. Judaism is not part of this. All I care about is if you murder civilians or not. If you do, we can't be friends. Simple as that.
If they weren't Jewish, the whole thing would've probably just been scrapped.
Saying the same thing, but with a less negative connotation, I think it’s important that a Jewish man is the one making this comparison and pushing others to reevaluate their blind tribalism on the matter. Jews have been killed, displaced, and persecuted by Muslims long before the rise of Hitlers Reich, but answering barbarism with more barbarism only ensures future barbarism.
Everyone deserves peace, freedom and safety. No one deserves the right to take peace, freedom or safety away from others, but humans do horrible things with power. We are not so different from our distant ancestors, and we still havent come close to rising above our nature..
Genuine Q: isn’t saying this should have come from a Jewish person a form of tribalism itself?
I’m of the opinion that critical thinking (like this piece) can be achieved by any person from any background, and we all should be engaging with the ideas that come up (and their merit, or lack thereof) rather than anything else if we’re interested in moving forward in a way that is equitable for all
IMO It seems a dangerous thing to be gatekeeping ideas from certain groups of people
Yes, anyone can have this opinion, and many people do, I’m just saying it might carry more weight coming from a Jew, and land better with other Jews and people aligned with them. None of that is gate keeping, and I’m pretty sure you’re a troll and don’t even know it.
I don't believe they were promoting gatekeeping ideas. We're allowed to think as we choose. But many have said similar things here (maybe not nearly as eloquently, but still ...) and it hasn't made a difference. Biden continues to fully support Israel and the killing hasn't stopped.
The ideas had to written by a Jewish person, someone who knows in their DNA what it's like to live as a Jew, to be treated as less-than far too often, to know family who were murdered, and to have realized the promise of a real home after a 2000 year diaspora.
So, your second paragraph is interesting because I/my family have lived that experience; as an autistic person and as someone whose grandfather fled their country as a refugee due to a communist uprising
Autistic people were actually the very first group of people to be holocausted by the nazis, several years before Jewish people
Does that give me more right or credibility to share these ideas? should it?
I don’t think it’s made a difference in this case either, if we’re comparing it to other individuals who have made this point and the effects on foreign policy
Gessen is nonbinary (they/them) fwiw. I just learned this from Wikipedia.
Noted.
I bet the German bureaucrats did this as a compromise that saves the faces of both sides. I don't say it's the right thing to do, but it's a typical big ass bureaucracy.