Screenshots of people being insane on Facebook. Please censor names/pics of end users in screenshots. Please follow the rules of lemmy.world
More and more I'm starting to think we need such a thing as a children's Bill of Rights. We always talk about rights of the parents but children's rights seems to get just ignored completely in today's society. I mean why does this child have to have their life potentially ruined and at the very least damaged markedly by the attitude of the parent. This kid didn't choose to be born to the psycho parent, yet it's going to have to feel the the effects of it.
It seems like "parental rights" is the new strategy that far right radicals are using to erode personal rights and freedoms. Up here in Canada they're using it to force gender non-conforming children to be outted to their parents by their schools, and even acknowledge the violation to the rights of children through the use of the notwithstanding clause: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/sask-bill-137-notwithstanding-clause-1.6993335
That's because it was never about rights. It is about property.
Women used to be men's property.
Children used to be parents' property.
Minorities used to be white people's property.
The right doesn't want people's rights, they want property rights.
Time to start owning republicans.
There is the Convention on the Rights of the Child, which is an international treaty signed by all but 1 country in the UN. The only holdout is the US.
A common enough thing for the US oddly enough.
The UN: "Hey, how about we made this basic, common sense, decent thing, part of what everyone could expect?"
The US: "Yeah, nah"
In Norway we tried. We got overuled by the European Courts. A bunch of foster parents threw in the towel as a result, and hundreds of children were deprived of a stable home environment.
Big win for the rights of abusive parents though!
Yeah I remember reading that. In Queensland, Australia it for some fucking insane reason is still legal to WHIP KIDS in private schools.
I thought there is no way that's true... get your shit together Queensland.
With the exception of Queensland, all Australian states and jurisdictions have prohibited the use of physical punishment in all schools.
How fucked up is this. The supreme court ruled to leave the issue up to the states. "States rights" is how the supreme court ended Roe v. Wade too.
Ermmm. Thats the US. But agreed, it's fucked that the US still hasn't banned it nationally. Fuckety fuck fuck the supreme court.
Makes sense. Too much legislation gets passed to “protect the children” but maybe it would help to codify what that actually means and get some committee to find out what issues kids are currently facing (inappropriate homeschooling, lack of independent mobility...) as opposed to the fearmongering against E2E encryption etc.
So, to be clear I think this is a fantasic idea and needed, but I don't actually see it happening. Children aren't a voting group who can advocate for their own rights, while conversely psychos like that in the image above will be quite vocal about "goverment interference".
While something like this should be bipartisan and common sense to enforce basic facilities for children. I am certain that R's would insist on "not 'trans'ing' children" or the rights of unborn children and the whole thing dies as part of culture war BS.
Maybe I'm jaded, but I don't see how this could progress.
You've identified a key problem with top down "representative" democracy.
History hasn't ended. We can evolve.
I would like it if we could also somehow make over feeding your child count as child abuse.
There are a lot of parents who will just throw pizza and McDonald's at the child they have brought into the world rather than put the energy in to feed them nutritious healthy food.
Then you end up having third graders that weigh 175 lb becoming the norm.
And when you step back for just a moment and think, it is clear that that is child abuse. They are inflicting damage on that child that will last for the rest of their lives.
But making your child fat out of sheer laziness isn't treated the same as starving your child out of sheer laziness, and I don't know why.
You're better off arguing that we should be offering nutritional food for free to children (or everybody) if that's the case. This bypasses a lot of issues that might stem from poverty and location, and seems to show positive trends in physical, behavioral and educational health, plus, as a long-term investment, generates huge returns in the money spent.
"Put in the energy" what a judgemental prick. You have no idea what someone's personal situation is, nor would you care if you did. Just another cake life dickhead looking down on others.
I want to know what these people think about the foster care system. When I see crap like that it raises so many questions. Do they know what actual child abuse looks like? Do they think that foster care is a better alternative to eating chicken nuggets? Have they thought about the implications of classifying certain foods as "child abuse" or how you would even enforce that? Do they really think all the people in that situationare lazy? Have they considered that many of those kids end up being latch key kids because their parents are underpaid and working constantly just to feed/cloth/house their kids? Have they ever touched grass?
Just so many questions...
And the fix for that is name calling? I agree, there is a lot more needed than "energy" but let's have a discussion.
I dated a girl in highschool who didn't have a social security number. Her parents thought it was the mark of the beast and never registered one for her. All that did was cause her a problem when she became an adult. She had to go down and register one for herself so that she could do normal things like rent an apartment, buy a car, have a credit card, or get a job.
At least if she had a birth certificate, it's not so bad. Still a huge, unnecessary pain in the ass, but kids without birth certificates are going to have a complete nightmare as adults (assuming they don't grow up to be as crazy as their parents). It's so, so hard. I wish sovcits would limit their bullshit to themselves and not subject their poor kids to it.
Confirm. Had to help a friend of mine rebuild her documentation from scratch because her mom, who is nuts, destroyed her birth certificate, social security paperwork, driver's license, and all other documentation apparently out of spite.
It turns out, it's very difficult to get a replacement birth certificate without the involvement of your sole remaining parent when said parent is dead set on being uncooperative. If you don't have a government photo ID, getting the other documents is impossible. And if you don't have the other documents, getting the photo ID is impossible. Chicken and the egg!
I know we have a non-profit where I live that specifically helps people with that. Usually, it's homeless people who just don't have any of their documentation anymore, but I recommended them to someone whose parent was similarly awful. I don't even know where you'd start.
It varies a bit by state. We wound up asking an attorney, and they were able to direct us towards where to get the correct forms and paperwork. We had to get signed and notarized affidavits from other surviving family members to attest that she was who she said she was, etc. It took ages, and tons of running around all over the place to this office, that office, this government building, that government building, all over the damn state.
this is more of a problem with everything requiring social security as id. yknow, the thing specifically made not to be an id
I didn't have one until in was 15. My dad was forced to because he couldn't claim me on his taxes anymore when the IRS made it mandatory. "That was the year seven million children vanished," according to the IRS at the time.
The frustrating thing is that he was so vehemently against it, my mother had to do it (she controlled the finances), and this led to a huge issue because I was born overseas for my dad's work. They had to drag out state department records and proof I was a US citizen, because of being born on foreign soil. It was a mess.
Depends upon how long ago. Back in the 70s and 80s it was not common to apply for Social Security at birth or as a young child. It was also a bigger hassle before the internet. Some combination of phone calls, mail, and visiting the Social Security office in some cases.
You really didn't need it until you hit your teens and started to work or got your own bank account.
I think I was like 10 or 12 when I got my SSN. It wasn't any sort of protest or parental BS. Just didn't need it before then.
I think she was born in 1980, but literally everyone else I knew had a SSN their whole life. I think you're an outlier, but I'm just speaking from my own limited experience. Have you met other people your age who didn't have SSN as kids? When my son was born we just filled out a form at the hospital. I'm pretty sure they filed it for us, although I can't remember for sure, since it has been a couple of decades now.
I was born in the 60s and didn't get my social security number until I got my first job. That's the way it used to be.
This is just child abuse. Denying your child the basics that are required by the government for them to use their entitlements like school, healthcare, government services, etc is obscene. Your personal beliefs stop when they hurt other people, including your children.
This is just shit that's going to be a headache for their kid later on and would have been 1000% easier to handle as the parent near their birth.
Bold of you to think these kids are going to ever see a school or hospital. They’ll be kept at home being fed the most asinine homeschooling regimen possible and their “medical care” will be essential oils and potatoes in the socks. Then they’ll die before age 8 and the parents will blame it on chemtrails
school
YoU cAn'T pUt YoUr cHiLd iN tHe iNdOcTRiNaTiOn MaCHiNe! DeFeNd YoUr RiGhT tO hOmEsChOoL WiThOuT OvErSiGhT!
You just know those poor kids aren't vaccinated against anything too.
Not one blessed thing.
This makes absolutely no sense in my country.
Any child born in this country, if born in an hospital, leaves there already a citizen, with all connections to the state the child is in right to have, by force of law. This means from the moment the child is born, the child gains legal status and protection under the law, including from the parents and family.
Children that by some reason could not be registered at the hospital facilities are required to be registered in under 10 days from the date of birth, under penalty of heavy fines for the parents.
Less than a year back, there was a new cover about a gates community where a child was born and died for unknow causes in less than a year. Somehow, this transpired to the authorities and trigered a massive investigation. More children were found, unregistered, which means unvaccinated, never seen by a pediatrician, etc.
The so called "leader" of that community accused the state of overbearing, arguing the children were his, by right of father, and thus he was entitled to raise the children as he saw fit.
The subject quickly faded off the main news lines, as it was deemed a sensible subject, prone to cause suffering to more children, but that ass got the full weight of the law on him, from child endangerment, to destruction of remains (the deceased baby was alledgly cremated on the compound grounds).
The other children were removed from the compound, along with any members of the community that such chose to.
The religious freedom and parents rights arguments were carefully laid down on the ground, run over with a steam roller, folded, pressed again, soaked in kerosene and lit on fire.
We are a mostly liberal country but children have special protection under the law. We are born citizens and as thus the state has the responsibilty to defend us.
Are there flaws? Yes. Some, grotesque. But for the majority of cases, the system works.
There's a growing movement of "free birthing" where people are choosing to give birth unassisted and without medical intervention.
I suspect it's people trying to take agency in countries without universal health care where giving birth medically supported is financially untenable for a large population. Influencers do it and glorify it and make it look like an attractive option for people who also have anxiety about health.
It's really sad actually. The child seems less important than "the perfect birth story"
I have nothing against more people trying to give birth without medical assistance, exactly because giving birth nowadays is more and more considered a surgical act than a physiological process.
We have a NHS and the complaints from women and, fortunately, from men as well, about violence during labour as been pilling to create awareness and force changes.
From pushing for C-sections, to strapping women to the "chair", which is a proven bad position to give birth, systematic episiotomy, forced shaving of the pubic area, premature, too late or unnecessary epidural, no opening for different birthing positions...
I'm going to stop here. It's a sensible subject for me.
More and more people are looking for alternatives to give birth outside the reach of uncaring or indifferent doctors, which has been making space to doulas and midwives reappearing, often nurses that have undergone specfic training for such purpose.
These people are not trying to make the birth of their children unsafe but instead less violent and less of a medical act and more of a natural process.
The babies are nonetheless visited by a pediatrician, the foot test is done, and the children are registered because not doing so is endangering the child and depriving them for social backing, both child and parents.
Sorry for the long wind. This is a sensible subject to me.
I fully respect that medical treatment of women has historically been lacking, and at times horrific. Number of c-sections is actually a metric used to measure appropriateness of medical interventions for a reason, since if it's not necessary it's extremely invasive and a brutal recovery.
I feel for those who have had bad experiences. Midwives are absolutely amazing.
I am more concerned with those that refuse prenatal care and medical care for their children, when they are accessible, for their own comfort.
Your last few words intrigued me.
For their comfort? How? Usually, it will be extreme outliers going down such route, often connected with distrust from government or religious motivation.
I guess it's not really their comfort, you're right about there being extrinsic factors at play.
By their comfort I meant avoidance of discomfort, in relation to medical procedures, to the extreme of potentially jeopardizing the health of their child. Things (other than avoiding prenatal care, which can result in more dangerous situations during delivery) like refusing vitamin k for their newborn.
This makes absolutely no sense in my country.
This makes absolutely no sense in any country. The whole "Sovereign Citizens" movement (and its offshoots and influences) is a steaming hot pile of garbage that's being cooked by an underlying tire fire. It's what happens when sociopaths interact with each other in ways that feed and fan the flames of their disorder.
She doesn't want to give her kids to the gubmint, but she's happy as a pig in shit to hand their privacy over to strangers on Facebook by name.
Is there a way around this and still be able to travel out of the country with her?
I'm laughing just thinking about that whole sovereign citizen vs. ebil gubmint vs. airport customs thing. However it works out, I'm pretty certain it's NOT going to go the way she imagines it will. "Imagine" being the keyword here, lol.
Is there a way this won't affect her in her later years?
Pretty sure when those years arrive, this woman's question will be far more about how to make her daughter stop cursing her, and then later still, how to force the now fully estranged adult daughter via the Ebil Gubmint court system into allowing Batshit Crazy Sovereign Citizen Granny access to the grandkids.
I feel like I gave him away when I had to get everything on him
No, he's only going to wish she had given him away. To people who didn't force him to live without proper ID in a society that revolves more and more closely on exactly that.
"Sovereign citizen", my ass. They just don't want to participate in society, at least not in the part where the concept of society involves a "give". This is not only about giving taxes, but also topics like "give your kid a chance for a normal life".
Ugh I have an uncle who's a sovereign citizen type, these people are truly unhinged!
What's he like? They're deranged.
I'm minimal contact with him, as little as possible, mostly just at Thanksgiving and occasionally Christmas or another big family holiday. He's a huge conspiracy nut, MAGA guy, microchips in the vaccines, "Am I being detained?" etc. Basically for any topic he's going to find the most asinine position possible and insist that it's the only reasonable one
My theory about those types of people is that they have a very normal need to be important and that need is currently unfulfilled.
And that's how they get drawn into these phantom wars against the boogeyman of the week, like there's some part of them that says, "I am being a hero! I am doing a good thing even though people are against me!"
It probably also explains that the more people that they make uncomfortable the more deeply they get into the rabbit hole.
The negative feedback provides attention, it provides a source of importance to what feels like an unimportant and worthless life.
Christianity's version of this:
“If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you." - Jesus
That sounds like some major ppd if she thinks she somehow doesn't have her 2 year old
She doesn’t have them because the government owns them now. The government owns everyone with a SSN, apparently.