this post was submitted on 10 Dec 2023
562 points (98.4% liked)

Science Memes

11091 readers
1127 users here now

Welcome to c/science_memes @ Mander.xyz!

A place for majestic STEMLORD peacocking, as well as memes about the realities of working in a lab.



Rules

  1. Don't throw mud. Behave like an intellectual and remember the human.
  2. Keep it rooted (on topic).
  3. No spam.
  4. Infographics welcome, get schooled.

This is a science community. We use the Dawkins definition of meme.



Research Committee

Other Mander Communities

Science and Research

Biology and Life Sciences

Physical Sciences

Humanities and Social Sciences

Practical and Applied Sciences

Memes

Miscellaneous

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 
top 27 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 69 points 11 months ago (2 children)

For those wondering, this is from “Science: Abridged Beyond the Point of Usefulness”, by the inestimable Zach Weinersmith.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I think you meant estimable (worthy of great respect), not inestimable (too great to calculate), although I guess they both work.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Inestimable also means "of great value"

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

Inflammable means flammable? What a country!

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 52 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I think the physicists have been having doubts about slow stuff recently too.

[–] [email protected] 39 points 11 months ago (2 children)

This is the truth. I am a few months away from getting my PhD in particle physics and the core questions being raised in all levels of the field at the edges of our decent big-picture understanding are so exciting.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 32 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Sometimes stuff does. Othertimes, it is more open for debate. As a rule, I like to imagine that stuff might, but only if it will make stuff more confusing.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago

Well that checks out. Thanks!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

So what's your view on MOND?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago

It is interesting, but it feels like there are too many compromises made at the expense of observational data.

  1. The first issue is the reliance on a ~2eV neutrino to compensate. While sterile neutrinos could theoretically be that massive, we have yet to find conclusive evidence of steriles and don't know the absolute masses or the mass ordering of the neutrinos mass eigenstates we have observed. (I am in neutrinos, so this is the point I am most familiar with.) While the discovery of steriles could occur, my buddy works on a search for eV scale sterile neutrinos and all of his findings have shown that there is no preference for any sterile signal at or around 1-100eV. Normal neutrinos also can't work: While we don't know the masses of each neutrino mass eigenstate individually, we know the sum of the neutrino masses, ~0.06-0.1eV, eliminating normal neutrinos from contention as well. This is a core failing, as it relies on the presence of an equally unproven particle as DM, but isn't as good a fit as DM in many ways, leading into point 2...

  2. It has a hard time fitting to galactic cluster data. The Bullet cluster is one of the best observational proofs of DM, and MOND doean't offer a good explanation for what we see. It also doesn't account for gravitational lensing, which is a problem given we can see that quite clearly. Since it is only effective at huge scales and can't be easily checked in a lab, it needs to at least consistently describe observations before I can consider it over DM, which does an excellent job of describing observation. This leads into my final point...

  3. There isn't really any way to experimentally verify/refute it. I am an experimentalist, and while not every theory needs to have a labrotory confirmation, it seems like there is no way to falsify MOND. DM experiments have long proposed models that allow for some DM particle interaction mechanism, however infrequent, with barionic matter that would confirm/deny those models. While far from exhaustive, it at least allows for the ruling out of certain models if the expected flux isn't there. MOND seems opaque to even this sort of experimental checking.

There are other issue too, but I am not well versed in GR, which is where many other tensions exist. Overall, it seems like an interesting math problem, but I can't take it seriously until it gives us something to test or describes what we see much more accurately.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Isn't MOND largely discounted by the results we've gotten from JWST so far?

[–] [email protected] 15 points 11 months ago

I wish this kind of disclaimer would have been in my physics book in school. Big reason why I didn't pursue an academic career in physics is because all the quantum stuff sounded like a religion, trying to convince itself that superpositions are real and you can't measure things, because you just can't.

Many years later I know that there's explanations for these things and that some of the illogical things I've been told were not nearly as certain or just flatout wrong. Because yeah, we're still pushing the boundaries of our understanding outwards...

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Time go forward, no go back.

What hard to understand? /s

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

Right, but how quickly? And does that rate change in different places? If so, what causes it to change?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

So we got gravity linked to quantum mechanics, and all figured out, at least?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

It's waves or something