this post was submitted on 13 Jul 2023
94 points (100.0% liked)

Star Trek Social Club

10676 readers
225 users here now

r/startrek: The Next Generation

Star Trek news and discussion. No slash fic...

Maybe a little slash fic.


New to Star Trek and wondering where to start?


Rules

1 Be constructiveAll posts/comments must be thoughtful and balanced.


2 Be welcomingIt is important that everyone from newbies to OG Trekkers feel welcome, no matter their gender, sexual orientation, religion or race.


3 Be truthfulAll posts/comments must be factually accurate and verifiable. We are not a place for gossip, rumors, or manipulative or misleading content.


4 Be niceIf a polite way cannot be found to phrase what it is you want to say, don't say anything at all. Insulting or disparaging remarks about any human being are expressly not allowed.


5 SpoilersUtilize the spoiler system for any and all spoilers relating to the most recently-aired episode. There is no formal spoiler protection for episodes/films after they have been available for approximately one week.


6 Keep on-topicAll busmittions must be directly about the Star Trek franchise (the shows, movies, books, etc.). Off-topic discussions are welcome at c/Quarks.


7 MetaQuestions and concerns about moderator actions should be brought forward via DM.


Upcoming Episodes

Date Episode Title
11-28 LD 5x07 "Fully Dilated"
12-05 LD 5x08 "Upper Decks"
12-12 LD 5x09 "Fissure Quest"
12-19 LD 5x10 "The New Next Generation"
01-24 Film "Section 31"

Episode Discussion Archive


In Production

Strange New Worlds (TBA)

Section 31 (2025-01-24)

Starfleet Academy (TBA)


In Development

Untitled theatrical film

Untitled comedy series


Wondering where to stream a series? Check here.

Allied Discord Server


founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

I'll start.

For Guinan: I loved that her character was that classic trope of the "bartender / therapist" who was always around, but never got too involved in the main plot. She would give casual advice, but wasn't officially an "advisor", so it served the show well for the main characters to share what they were thinking.

For Quark: He was unquestionably the better developed character, with his own wants and desires that frequently intertwined with the main plot. He also served as a sort of foil to the values of the federation, which let the viewers see how greed was incompatible with the best interests of the people.

I love both. Which was your favorite? Which approach did you like better for the "bartender" character?

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It's apples to oranges. They served two totally different roles. If you've seen Picard you understand she played a much move pivotal role in time and events than Quark. He was a great character, but didn't hold the power to change life altering events like Guinan. Personally, I like Quark's character better though.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Apples to oranges was my first thought. Guinan is good at listening, helping to sort out someone's thoughts, and if needed saying that there is a path for someone to follow. Quark is about that profit, and when he gives advice it is direct, not subtle. Sometimes accompanied by an insult. I think both are good characters, but Quark is definitely more well-rounded and developed. Over time, little is learned about the El-Aurians from Guinan. A lot is learned about the Ferengi from Quark.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I still need to see Picard. I honestly have only watched TOS, TNG, and DS9 a billion times for some reason, and I have a lot of catching up to do.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Do yourself a favor and skip the entire first two seasons of Picard.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I'd heard it had mixed reviews... I'm someone who will power through the stinkers if I have to though.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Definitely worth the stink when you get to season 3 and the final scene with Q. Good luck!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I'm the same, but. holy. fuck.

Season 1 is bearable, and has some neat things like The Borg 2.0 and go a little deeper into Data's story. But season 2 is absolute fucking garbage. I tired for months to get through it and finally quit on the last 2 episodes. Holy fuck it's honestly one of the worst seasons of any TV show ever not just Trek. I'm not gonna lie it kinda ruined the ironic character I grew up watching a little for several months.

So yeah if you don't want that, skip to 3. Finally went back to see it, they must have fired the whole writing staff because it's so much better. Still not amazing but they basically salvaged the best characters in the franchise.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's so disappointing, but at least I know going into it now.

I feel like a key interview question for a writer/director/etc should be "are you a fan of star trek?" Like, there are a ton of hardcore trek fans out there. Sure some of them are writers and can do the characters justice.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

The ego of some showeruners thinking they know best and no one gets them can be staggering. Combine that with negligent execs who only see an IP's $$$ and you get a hellbrew of no one questioning anyone.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I watched the first episode and noped out of it, but I was tempted to skip first season. Do you think starting with season three would work? I'm not particuarly completionist, and I'm sure I can fill in the blanks...

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

@Acamon @BaroqueInMind

No problem starting with s03. There's very little continuity between seasons, and the parts that call back to earlier seasons are fleeting and non crucial. Each season can be watched out of order, but within seasons, they need to be watched serially.

FTR, I liked the whole series, but I'd have trouble recommending s01-02 generally.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I think it's a pretty open and shut case for Quark. I love Guinan, but Quark is just a much more developed and interesting character for me.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

He also fills the smuggler role. He pairs nicely with Garek's information brokering.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Garek deserves a prequel series. What was tailor school like? Did he get grief for being into fashion instead of war games like other Cardassians? Did his family support his decision?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

TIL the fediverse does @ replies and my username looks boss

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Right. And a simple tailor as he was, did he fit in with his complicated peers in tailor school?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Coming soon from CBS Studios, Young Garak! See how a young Cardassian grows up under a ruthless tyrant!

Followed by the sequel, Breaking Baste, where a once-infamous spy becomes a simple tailor.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago

Yeah I mean it's gotta be Quark and it's not close. He also became the de-facto representative of life outside the Federation & Starfleet, which was one of the things DS9 really leaned in to.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I enjoy the more humourous tone that Quark gives the show; so my vote goes for Quark!

However, if I were to live on a Starship or a Deep Space station, I would probably visit Guinans bar more often than Quarks...

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Scenes in Ten Forward always feel so cozy, and nobody would be trying to rip you off. Lol

That's where I'd personally want to hang out too.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's because you don't see Ten Forward during red alert

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

But Ten Forward is on a Starfleet vessel, and therefor far more exclusionary. Anyone can take a shuttle to Quark's.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Now that I think of it, I do really like that aspect of Quark's bar as a story tool. Since they were located on a station, anyone who's just passing through could be sitting at the bar.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Yeah, it's a wretched hive of scum and villainy!

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I think the vibe was better in Guinans bar. Who wants carpeting in their drinking hole?!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Quark has the most deviant Holodeck programs...

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I think Lt. Barcley and his "300 Trois" program may disagree with you.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

The ship will clean itself!

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

@Datas_Cat_Spot
Who was "better utilized" is a hard question in my view, but I think it's clear that Quark was a more fully developed character.

Guinan appeared seldom but always gave insight to characters when they most needed it. She was enigmatic, and cool, but not very fleshed out.

Quark was more realized as a character - more complex, more highs and lows, more emotions. I didn't like him much, but he was more "interesting" to watch.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

You've hit on a good point there, Guinan always felt to me like a deus ex machina in the stories. It feels like when the writers don't know how to resolve something, they just have a character go to Guinan and resolve whatever it is they were struggling with.

It also feels like they really didn't know what to do with the character. Whoopie's availability didn't help with that, since she had only a very limited shooting time. Sometimes they made it seem like Picard and her go way back, but then she didn't play any significant role as far as we know. And there were plenty of times where they would have been far apart for super long. They also want to make her an enigma, not really knowing her age or limits, with vague hints to her father and Q exclaiming she has powers. But nothing ever comes of this. And if Picard and her go way back, surely he would know about some of this stuff? But he never does it seems like.

Her whole back story is full of holes and the character makes no sense. But that's common with Star Trek characters.

It feels like throwaway lines that get tossed around to make the character feel more than it is, but it's completely hollow and ultimately comes to nothing.

It's a shame, because I like the idea of Guinan, but story wise the character simply wasn't very good and not utilized very well.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Neelix was Voyager's unofficial bartender, spreading cheer to Tuvok and helping Tom Paris hit Warp 10!

Please don't ban me.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

"Choke me harder, daddy"

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

So wouldn't that make the blended neeliz/tuvok the first federation bartender in Star trek?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Bartenders are often in charge of lifting moral.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I love the character of Quark, but let's be honest. Guinan is the better bartender, if you're just a regular Starfleet officer looking to down a pint of syntheholic ale.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Guinan is the better bartender, if you're just a regular Starfleet officer looking to down a pint of syntheholic ale.

Nonsense, she also has green!

Besides, I couldn't see Quark making a Tzartak aperitif.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

I got to agree with Steve Shives that Guinan was a better councilor than Deanna Troi.

However, I loved seeing Quark as a character more. I'm some cases, he gives great commentary on hu-mans. In other cases, he is great as someone who gives character to the station; Quark is that bit of shitberg floating on the surface that shows a lot worse is happening underneath. Quark is authenticly fake I love him for it.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I mean idk quarks is basically a half step away from a brothel and while I love the character he's a lil shit and greedy ad. My vote is 10 forward

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Ten Forward is just a relaxing environment. There are a few people who have uploaded ambient/atmospheric trek videos on youtube (usually something like "10 hours of the TNG warp core room"). There's a Ten Forward one I've put on in the background quite a few times.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

I'm not sure how this was even a question. Quark was clearly better utilized.

load more comments
view more: next ›