While David Bowie was not non-binary, he was an icon of androgyny and I’ve found that to sometimes be a good place to start discussions about the vast in-between spaces. It also helps keep the conversation from starting with “kids these days” because Bowie has been fly as fuck since way back when.
this post was submitted on 08 Jul 2023
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I like it!
Just an alternative here. You don't have to explain your gender, you just have to explain how you want to be treated.
Good idea!
There are a lot of simple definitions out there, but I think there is no perfect wording that you can craft to convince them of the validity of peoples’ experiences. You will know pretty much right away where they’re at. People who are open and willing to be respectful will be curious, interested, and maybe kind of awkward or misinformed at first but you’ll see the good faith and see their attempt to understand and be kind about it - whereas people who have no intention of understanding will often pretend it’s much way confusing than it is (it’s not!), or get hung up on grammar, focus on semantics or how they’re “too old”, etc. Explaining the concept itself pretty easy, but the hard part comes if they’re not really listening. But, hopefully “oh, so that’s what that means! Huh! Your cousin three times removed was sorta like that, let me tell you a story…” will be the response you get.
There's also "too old" in the sense of "too old to give a shit". I don't think my grandad "gets" me being trans, but he had definitely decided he is too old to care and was like "Okay, name, pronouns, got it, don't bother explaining" and proceeded to be the only family member who was perfect at it.
(It's actually kind of fascinating to see what language he comes up with on his own. Somehow, he has never learned what "transition" is and says things like "When he was being a girl..." which is simultaneously "getting it" and kind of cringe.)
Haha oh my god. This is so sweet though. I think it is so easy for most people to instinctively understand - but harder for some of them to be like, fully aware of the nuances of how we talk about things now. I have mostly heard “I’m too old” deployed as a stand in for “i do not want to have this conversation. stop talking to me about it”.
Yep, if they're resistant you immediately alter course and say in America we believe in freedom, freedom to live however they want, that no one should tell them how to live. Watch them try to figure that out
This is the correct response. Wish I’d done that.
"Someone who doesn't want to be 100% a man or 100% a woman. Imagine gender wasn't a single choice, but a slider from 100% fem to 100% masc, and you could pick where it sat each day."
I'm missing stuff but that's how I would explain it to my nana.
who doesn’t want to be 100% a man or 100% a woman.
I'd go further and avoid any kind of "want to be" wording in explanations to people who can be really doubtful. Gender is who you are, not who you want to be. If you tell them "I want to be ", they might form some kind of "attack helicopter" opinion/joke. but if you tell them "I'm on the inside" or "despite my body, I'm actually ", that leaves a lot less room for wrong interpretations.
"Someone who's gender identity neither aligns completely with man or woman" would be my rewording, in this case.
Is there a way to mix in the old concept of Tomboy into the conversation since that's something older folks would maybe understand?
This popped in my head the other day when I was randomly thinking about how non-binary identities have existed since before everyone called it that.
Sounds pretty solid. I'll try it when it next comes up!
ok wait, i know what nb is but think somethings going over my head here haha. i’m just a bit confused- can you just elaborate on what you mean by “you could pick where it sat each day”? or is that just meant to be part of it being a simplified version of nb?
I had a non-binary friend who wasn't just a tomboy or a fem guy, they had a bit of a cycle back and forth between being full guy mode and full girl mode over the course of six months. I don't personally identify as NB but I also have a tendency to lean in and out of my masc side over time.
okay, i think i see what you mean. i have a similar internal pendulum of femininity and androgyny despite being cis, so i can relate. your wording of “picking” is what threw me off, since it sounded like you mean that nb people pick their gender lol, but i understand that you meant that with presentation now instead, which i agree with.
Sorry, I was first but I'm not super good with words.
"Someone who doesn't identify as male or female" has worked with my boomer family.
The main problem you're gonna have with this is explaining to them the difference between gender and sex, how gender is really just a social construct, that sort of thing. Get them on that first, then the suggetsions of some of the other commenters will probably go down a lot easier.
lol, would be easier to explain quantum mechanics to a cat
Leave cats out of quantum mechanics, please. They have suffered enough.
- Schrödinger's cat
Heh, yeah.
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