From video gaming to card games and stuff in between, if it's gaming you can probably discuss it here!
Please Note: Gaming memes are permitted to be posted on Meme Mondays, but will otherwise be removed in an effort to allow other discussions to take place.
See also Gaming's sister community Tabletop Gaming.
This community's icon was made by Aaron Schneider, under the CC-BY-NC-SA 4.0 license.
Might want to wait for the benchmark tests to come out first, if the build is for CS2. I remember CS is pretty CPU heavy, so you might want to hold off on your choice of platform first.
Edit: Also, do check with the PSU tier list, don't have to get A tier, but try something from B. A good PSU will help with the longevity of your build!
And a good power supply now can last several systems down the road.
I pretty much exclusively buy psu from seasonic or EVGA rated platinum or higher. 1000W and fully modular. These things last me at least 10 years and are as future proof as you can get. If you calculate price per year of use over its lifetime, it's even the more affordable option.
Yup, Seasonic and EVGA for me too. Expensive, but worth it.
Current PC is too bad for Cities Skylines 2. Can anyone judge the PCPartPicker list I've put together?
Wrong question. The right one would be:
"Based on the PCPartPicker list I've put together, how many mods will I be able to add to Cities Skylines 2?"
There is no PC in existence capable of running all of them all at once, but I'd recommend getting as much RAM as possible (256GB better than 32GB), it's going to be your main bottleneck. Followed by the CPU... and the SSD is only a bottleneck at load time. GPU is optional, CS2 barely uses it.
Also: better to have twice as much RAM, than RAM twice as fast. RAM itself is 100x faster than an SSD, so you're better off keeping stuff in only 50x faster RAM, rather than going back and forth to a 100x slower SSD.
Looks good. I'd go for 32 gigs of ram though if you can swing it. Also is there any reason why you want a 22" monitor specifically?
The reason this one should last is because ddr5 is new and so is the AM5 socket for AMD. AMD supported the previous socket from 2016-2022 so many are speculating that you should be able to do CPU upgrades for the foreseeable future without having to change the whole platform.
2x22" is what I have already and it fits my desk well and it's not too much, if that makes any sense. I'm going to also look at an ultrawide physically over the weekend and see how it feels, but i like to snap windows to the sides of the screens and I don't know enough about ultrawides to know if you can do that easily, haha
I can personally guarantee you how nice ultrawide is and beats 2 small monitors every day. I have had one for 6 years and can't go back. Windows makes it easy to snap left and right.
I use a program called PowerToys FancyZones to divide my ultrawide monitor into 3 equal sections that I can snap to as well. I suggest checking that one out no matter what you end up going with
Ultrawide monitors often come with extra software to help you enjoy it more like built in KVM functionalities. There's also window snapping managers on Windows like WiLMa. I'm similar to you though, 2x24" mounted to the wall.
If you're using Windows, then get PowerToys, it has FancyZones for customisable window snapping. The closest thing I've found on Linux is gTile.
I've pulled out an old laptop to try Linux Mint because I'm really over Windows' whole thing and I just need to get my hands on mint before I fully commit. But thanks for the shoutout!
Gamers Nexus said they will do a Cities Skylines 2 benchmark next week I think. Not that it will necessarily change your build at all, I'm guessing this will handle it fine and the Gamers Nexus benchmarks of BG3 would have you walking away with the same set of conclusions that you've already arrived at.
Looks cool to me, if you're not planning to upgrade to more power hungry components. Actually I bought a new PC too in early summer partly for C:S 2 too, and your specs are pretty similar, although you should consider some things.
1.: Assuming that you will utilize a lot of mods and custom assets, a 32 GB RAM should be needed
2.: Since C:S 2 is finally multithreaded, you could also check out Intel (if you don't care about consumption), since theoretically it offers better multithreaded performance.
(Gonna post my build in the morning)
Is Intel still on top? I thought AMD had swept away multi core since Zen 2 and recently has beat equivalent Intel CPUs in single-core as well?
It's all just a giant pissing contest at this point. Both are good. I prefer AMD, but Intel builds are cool too.
Not really tbh, but Intel has adopted the little.BIG architecture which means those CPUs are have high and low performance cores, just like in the ARM/mobile CPUs. Currently these low perf cores aren't detected correctly in Windows, and as a result it actually worsens gaming performance, but I assume this will be corrected? In synthetic/theory 13600K is better at multithreaded (https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/5172vs5008/AMD-Ryzen-5-7600-vs-Intel-i5-13600K).
This is my build:
The E-cores (on existing Intel chips) aren't going to help with gaming ever, there's just too much latency communicating between them and the P-cores. That said, performance is similar to AMD with Raptor Lake often slightly edging out Zen 4, albeit at higher power usage, but this can vary game to game. Until Cities Skylines releases and we have third party benchmarks, it's hard to say which will be better, but they should be close either way. Raptor Lake refresh is also about to release which will probably add another 5-10% single threaded and a bit more multithreaded performance.
I don't know where you got the idea that they aren't detected correctly. Intel and Microsoft worked together on the thread director for Windows 11. There were some teething issues in some games and apps early on but it's been 3 years and most of the biggest issues were fixed in the first few months. They even work decently well on Windows 10 (I have a 12600k on 10). You can also disable them if you run into any issues.
I'm going to preface this with this computer will last quite a while, but you won't have nearly as much of an upgrade path if you went with an AM5 platform (latest AMD CPU socket) on DDR5 (latest generation of RAM). With that said, your use case seems to be one that will not require keeping up with the latest games, so if you want to save some money this is what I would do.
NOTE: Prices are from Amazon, you can likely find a few components cheaper elsewhere.
CPU: You don't need an R5 7600. I was running an R5 3600 up until a few months ago and the only reason I upgraded was I found a 5800X3D for a good price. I'd go for an R5 5600X which is $60 cheaper than the 7600 and will be more than enough for City Skylines 2
Motherboard: You can now get a B450DS3H board for that CPU for $40 cheaper
RAM: You'll now be on DDR4. Get a 16GB kit of CL16 DDR4, will be about the same price as the DDR5 you have. May want to go for 32GB of RAM because sim games eat RAM, but ultimately up to you. You can always buy more down the road if needed as a 32GB kit is like $5 less than 2 16GB kits.
Case: The no-name brand cases on Amazon are actually quite good. You can get a nice case for ~$50. Hell, I just found a Thermaltake Versa H18 for that price. Another $55 saved.
GPU: I haven't kept up to date on GPUs, but I've heard good things about the 6700XT, and benchmarks look respectable for BG3 and City Skylines 2. You could likely get away with something a bit less powerful, but price to performance seems to side with the 6700XT.
This brings the price down to $831. You could ditch the aftermarket cooler and get it under $800 as the 5600X comes with a cooler, but I'm never going to knock aftermarket coolers as they tend to be much quieter and less whiny than stock.
I also went down the "is AM4 still good?" Rabitthole and decided because I don't have a Microcenter near me, I could not get a 5800X3D, so I didn't want to build it. After watching many videos though, AM4 is a mature platform and so thoroughly developed. Sales are on fantastic products, and the GPU and RAM will remain upgradeable for years, just that upgrading the CPU would require a new MOBO as well. Building AM5, seems OP already knows a great deal, but the news is that it can be finicky and returning products because they don't work so well is more common than usual.
I think in this case AM4 is fine. I recommended it because OP mentioned the price was a bit much, and AM4 at the moment gets you a lot of value. Especially given they are someone who plays indie games primarily with some heavier games occasionally and isn't on all the latest AAA games. I'm actually very similar to them where I'll play the occasional AAA game, but I mainly stick to Minecraft and KSP (which is stupid CPU intensive). My R5 3600 was more than enough for this and my upgrade was 100% unnecessary, so the 5600X should last them quite a while. There is also a decent upgrade path from a 5600X to a 5800X3D or 5900X3D.
We're starting to see gaps between generations get smaller as Moore's law fails, so I think parts are going to start lasting a bit longer now anyway. Hell, my 4970k lasted me almost 7 years, and my mom ran it in her work PC I built her for another 3 after that.
I honestly don't think either path is a bad one, just up to them if they want to save some money or get a little bit more upgradability.
Excellent points.
I only grabbed a 5800x3D at boxing day last year, because I'm running an AM4 board and it was one less thing I'd need to update, well that and I'd have to also buy all new ram and buy in at the peak of pricing.
If I was building from scratch today, I would unquestionably do an AM5 build. If I had an AM4 board and I was otherwise happy with my RAM setup, it's still a pretty tough choice. You aren't going to get as much time out of it at this point vs AM5, at least I don't think. It also means your next build is going to almost for sure need to be entirely a new build, save for the case, the power supply (if it's big enough) and maybe the storage (which hopefully will be larger and cheaper by then). The hard part, too, is they are already talking about a release window for AM6. So maybe AM5 doesn't last as long as AM4 does, making this all moot. But you'd probably still have a refresh window with AM5 at that point, and not be totally obsolete.
I was pretty frustrated reading about the Microcenter 5800x3D situation. I am so jealous of city dwellers lately, I'm looking for reasons to seethe about living in the middle of nowhere.
To play devils advocate, I think on a budget Am5 mobo (b650) Pcie 4 x 4 is the main or only storage choice? I think my mobo came with one pcie 5 x 4 m.2 slot, or maybe it didn't even. And then graphics cards might be on pcie4 for much longer yet as they use 4 x 8 lanes while using a 4x16 slot. There's been a leak that a Pcie5 card from AMD MAY release soon. Neither OP or I will need it for a 1080p monitor though 😆
I honestly let fears about upgradeability get to me a lot more than I hope OP does. I think there is a sub-$1000 Am5 build that can make a terrific value/longevity out of this situation. But when I did, I talked myself into spending a lot more. 😅
Bringing up AM6 is a terrific point! AM5 high end has some really bad issues right now, and AMD very well might to redesign the chip and/or socket to get better performance.
Hey OP,
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/possible-raptor-lake-refresh-launch-date-leaked
It sounds like Intel is releasing mid-October. I don't know if Intel is of interest to you, and these are described as flagship cards. I also have no idea if this will effect prices on other cards or not.
Because I'm on Linux I have no interest in Intel / Nvidia, though Intel can have amazing performance on Linux when they give it the proper firmware updates.
Intel's previous release was not great, by the way. This does throw doubt in my mind this next one will do anything for you other than potentially reflect in the prices of other products. 🤷♀️
Nice!
I've always been an Intel guy. But I have owned two AMD computers over the years. Both of those gave me a very unstable experience.
High performance, but unstable.
My latest pc is a Ryzen 9 3900x computer, and im definitely going back to Intel next time.
My ryzen is very warm (which makes the fans become loud, first time I've had to switch to liquid cooling to be able to be in the room) and I've had a very unstable experience overall. Had to fiddle with energy settings and stuff to get it running properly.
There has been several new games where I had to wait to even be able to play them due to crashes or inexplainable low performance.
Darktide for example, still crashes for me, while my buddies old Intel pc's runs it great and no issues. Totally missed out on that game as they are now done with it.
Sorry for rant, but Im quite frustrated with this pc.
No hey this is valuable added input. Sorry you've had a rough experience, and I'll take this as a warning that I will most likely have to learn some new skills in dealing with the issues you're describing.
Looks pretty good. You might want to try and stretch for 7800x3d if gaming CPU performance is important.
Cities Skylines sees a fairly decent improvement going to the 3D cache chips from AMD (17% speedup here for the 5800x3D). Whats your ability to increase the budget to go for a 7800X3D look like? If this is a genre of game you like and you want to hold off as long as possible between upgrades, it might be worth springing the extra. The difference the 3D cache provides in some games is rather extraordinary. City builders, automation, and similar games tend to benefit the most. AAA games tend to benefit the least (some with effectively no gain).
A 7600X should be more than capable of handling the game though. So it's not a question of need but if it's worth it to you.
You do not want 4800 CL40 RAM though, that's too slow. I'd strongly recommend going for 32GB of RAM as well; 16GB can be gobbled up quickly, especially if you want to use mods in Cities Skylines.
Going up even to DDR5-6000 is not much of a price increase. I'd suggest 6000 and something in the range of CL36-CL40. There's a lot of 32GB kits in those specs in the ~$90 range. I would not build a gaming system today with 16GB of RAM.
Heyo! Your question led me to check some stuff since my wife wants to upgrade at some point as well.
Since we are slowly moving away from the intel/nvidia/windows ecosphere towards amd/linux/open source, we figured she should go with am5 when she changes her motherboard.
The b650-s and ryzen 5 7600 combined with gskill ripjaws s5 32gig. All together was roughly 500 bucks. The cooler needs to go on top obviously. We already have a gpu but if we needed one I‘d probably go with the amd 7600 since it is fairly new and pretty cheap.
Just so you know, I have put in quite some reaearch on gpus recently but nothing else so I‘m fairly positive about the gpu, a little less certain on the rest. The 7600 is not far from the 6700 xt imo and better in terms of fps per dollar/euro.
The nvidia 3060ti is pretty much the same but I think amd is the better decision going forward since nvidia is being a dick about their drivers forever and amd is more futureproof if you leave windows.
Good luck with your build.
I think a DDR5 build at this point is the way to go, but I'd highly recommend getting a bigger power supply for future proofing. I'd also consider a slight bump in the video card. Definitely get a bigger power supply though, as I made that mistake doing a 2020 build, only could get a 2000 series NVIDIA GPU at the time, so I just stuck a 650W in as that's all it needed. Then once shit calmed down, I decided to catch the 5800x3d discount wave with a 4070ti and I had to get a new power supply. Spend the extra 50 bucks now, rather than spending $150 down the road and cursing yourself the whole time as you have to essentially rewire your whole setup. I wouldn't go lower than 850W these days, and that's going to be overkill for your setup right now, but it likely won't always be.
You'll also need more RAM soon enough too, but that's easy breezy down the road, allocate your money to something else right now. Just make sure to get it on two sticks and if your motherboard has four slots (pretty sure it does), you can always grab two more matching sticks on sale down the road. Problem solved.
Oh, get a better hard drive than that too, there's a reason it's so cheap (PCI3). Just grab a 1TB for about the same price, but a PCI4 one. This is also something thats super easy to update down the road, and you don't need to worry about for a bit, as 1TB will probably get you through the next year at least.
I don’t know about all the hardware, but I have that same case and absolutely love it. There were so many times putting the thing together were I found myself impressed by the thoughtfulness of design and ease of use. It’s dope. Never thought I’d have strong opinions about a case!
Oh that's great to hear! Are the fans loud? I could get a smaller case, but I read the stock fans are quiet and work well.
I don’t think mine came with any fans, but if it did they are installed along with others, and it runs quiet except for gpu fan.
I just built an AM5!
My biggest concern is your storage. Thats a PCIE 3 x 4 rather than a PCIe 4 x 4. I went with the 1 TB Solidigm P44 for $50. There's also the Samsung 990 Pro which has gone on sale a few times recently. The Samsung NVMEs all slap, it the two drives I mentioned are meant to be the fastest available.
You have a micro-ATX board with a Mid tower ATX case, by the way. You could get a smaller case, if you wanted to. $120 is an amazing price for a B650 board, I paid $180 and thought that was the best I could do because I only looked at Newegg.
On your RAM I made sure the RAM I bought was certified for AMD EXPO. The newest overclocking solution. Without overclock, RAM will often run at 5200 or 5600 depending on the motherboard. But 6000 is meant to be the sweet spot for this series of CPUs. I disagree that 32GB is necessary. You can always double it up from 16GB later on. Edit: CSky2? You mag actually want the 32GB, that would be a quick check with a benchmark or a user post about RAM consumption by the game to confirm if 32GB would have payoff or not.
Why the 6700 XT instead of the RX 7600? I decided the 7600 was a better value because I want to game at 1080p for the next few years. I went with the 7800X3D and after taxes my build was $1400. Ouch that was a hard pill to swallow. I started below $1000 and got greedy. But we're splitting hairs, if you prefer one of these cards then power to you.
I imagine your CPU and your GPU both recommend a 650W power supply, and I imagine you know something I dont and 600W will handle it fine. But if they recommend 750W, I would just double check.
Edit: by the way Newegg has the Fantastech sale starting now-ish but really opening up on October 9th. And I think Intel is announcing new products next month? I'm unsure. Obviously I decided to do it now, and if I have buyer's remorse so be it.
6700XT is still a bit faster than the 7600, I think. Feel free to correct me on this.
Agree on the SSD, while a PCIe4 may not be needed, I'm sure there're plenty of better SSDs than the Intel for cheap at this point in time. The price drops have been pretty good across the board.
6700 XT ($320) is indeed faster than the RX 7600 ($250) - it's just that I already know OP is on a 1080p (22") monitor. I've seen the BG3 and CS:2 benchmarks, but not the cities skylines 2 benchmarks.
I also have a stupid question, but does support / firmware updates matter a lot for GPUs? It's been a while for me. The 7600 is brand new from last month, and the 6700 XT is from... 2 years ago? Is that support gonna expire soon or am I making up a problem that doesn't exist?
25+ years of GPUs from three different major companies, and I don't think I've ever upgraded the firmware on my GPU. Support is based on the API, be it D3D or Vulkan or OpenGL. As long as there's support your card will work.
Awesome! Thank you.