this post was submitted on 29 Jun 2023
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Explain Like I'm Five

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I grew up going to church but I'm not religious now and I never really understood this part.

Please, no answers along the lines of "aha, that's why Christianity is a sham" or "religions aren't logical". I don't want to debate whether it's right or wrong, I just want to understand the logic and reasoning that Christians use to explain this.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

How odd, that one should be good not for the sake of goodness, but out of fear of damnation.

Jesus is an example of an ideal person. Being literally divine Jesus is capable of setting a perfect example of love, forgiveness, and compassion. We humans are not. We have flaws, but should still strive to be good people, just as Jesus was a good human.

If you are "being good" or "not being bad" for selfish reasons, you aren't acting out of love or goodness. Heaven, hell, reward, punishment, these shouldn't matter when it comes to virtue or vice.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I'm catholic, and to me it's because behaving in a good way will simply make you live better;
the idea is that sin is something that turns you away from God, but being close to God is what makes you truly happy

So even in this life, behaving in a good way would make you live better and happier

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

The simple answer is that the "you have to be good" Christians are not the same people as the "Jesus forgives no matter what" Christians. Beliefs and doctrines vary wildly throughout Christianity, and different Christians often believe contradictory things. This isn't helped by the fact that the Bible itself, being a collection of many books by many authors, contains contradictory viewpoints. This allows believers to focus on the elements they like and ignore the ones they don't.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

The “be a good person” and “you’ll be forgiven” are two separate ideas. Digging into it requires digging into a lot of different religions and their beliefs. Churches and people disagree on how those go together.

I don’t feel your request of “understanding the reasoning that Christians use” relates well to the question in your title. Much of religion now is repeating dogma rather than spiritual awareness and bettering yourself.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I had a teacher in school who believed in predestination. Basically, whether you go to heaven or hell is pre-ordained before your even born and there's nothing you can do to change it. I told him that sounded to me like I should be a Satanist because if I'm predestined for heaven I've worshipped Satan all my life for nothing and I get to chill in heaven. If I'm predestined to go to hell I've spent so much time worshipping Satan it probably won't be too bad. I'm personally not really religious myself but I really was dumbfounded at the whole predestination thing.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Biblically the teacher is right. God does know where you are going to end up when he creates you. That's the doctorine.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (3 children)

that... does not sound right. humans have free will

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They have free will but omniscience means it's known ahead of time what that free will will lead to.

If you give a 3 year old the choice between watching either the news or baby shark, you can pretty reliably predict the outcome. That but on a bigger scale.

At least that's the explanation that was given to me.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

One view is that God knows how people will end up not because He is forcing them to act a certain way, but because He has a perfect knowledge of the outcomes of their actions. Kind of like how a parent knows what the outcome of a small child's actions will be.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You're not a parent, are you? 😁

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

That's an... interesting take on predestination. The idea is that God already knows what you're going to do, because he's omniscient. It's not a matter of just picking you and then whatever you do is fine. He already 'knew' what you were going to do. So if you're good, he already knew and you're in.

If you wanna get into a religious debate about predestination, though, strap in. It's a doozy.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Omniscience and free will are contradictory but only if you feel like you should be bound by the laws of logic.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

God will only forgive you if you repent. You can't be a dick all your existence, say "Please forgive me at the end" without truly beliving it and that's it.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

but if you do truly repent then you can be a dick all your life and still get to heaven.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Answer according to anyone christian: (note- not me) You don't. You have have to "Be sorry" and "ask forgiveness". You can still be an enormous piece of sh*t if you say you're sorry that you were bad.

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[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What's so disheartening is that a lot of fundie Christians actually use this logic to get away with twisted stuff like SH, SA, or CSA.

(And then the next day they collectively blame drag queens for allegedly doing the exact same thing to CYA, but that's another story.)

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[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Welp you don't want to hear it but the best explanation is religion is a system to scam commoners of their devotion and money. If things start not making sense then you should stop believing in Santa Claus

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago
[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 year ago

You see, there are these things called eigenvalues. They dimentionalize the vector space. We can contruct a personality vector space and assign a set of orthogonal personality vectors. (Sees that this is elif). Erm, think of a "which Harry Potter character are you" quiz. We can add and subtract weighted , erm, Harry Potter characters, to get to you. You are half Harry plus two Rons minus 1.5 Malfos.

Now those numbers might change over time. That is you at that moment. If you, erm, took a DeLorean back to 1955, but still had those same numbers, you would still be you. If you wiped your memory but still had those numbers, you would still be you. Stands to reason if you went back in time and got your memory wiped, you would still be you. What if someone in the past (or future) had the exact same numbers? That would be you, even though no time travel occurred.

Now (erm, how do I explain vector projection to a five year old), ummm, if your numbers are close, you are mostly you? Now Jesus, ahh, scored a particular score on the sigh Harry Potter quiz. Remeber how I said your numbers change? Well, if your numbers are close enough, you could say that he is you, or Jesus is living Through you. And as long as more people in the future get numbers close to both yours and Jesus's, you could say you are living on, or having eternal life. And in order to change those number to Jesus's, you have to be good.

What? Oh, yes I got Hermonie. How did you know?

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You absolutely don't have to. But when you're a Christian, you love God with all your heart, all your mind, and all your soul; and you love your neighbor as yourself. The result is that you do good works by virtue of doing God's will. Good works are a result of salvation.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What a rosy colored and false view of the world and how christians act.

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