This community exists as a sister community/copycat community to the r/fuckcars subreddit.
This community exists for the following reasons:
You can find the Matrix chat room for this community here.
Be nice to each other. Being aggressive or inflammatory towards other users will get you banned. Name calling or obvious trolling falls under that. Hate cars, hate the system, but not people. While some drivers definitely deserve some hate, most of them didn't choose car-centric life out of free will.
No bigotry or hate. Racism, transphobia, misogyny, ableism, homophobia, chauvinism, fat-shaming, body-shaming, stigmatization of people experiencing homeless or substance users, etc. are not tolerated. Don't use slurs. You can laugh at someone's fragile masculinity without associating it with their body. The correlation between car-culture and body weight is not an excuse for fat-shaming.
Stay on-topic. Submissions should be on-topic to the externalities of car culture in urban development and communities globally. Posting about alternatives to cars and car culture is fine. Don't post literal car fucking.
No traffic violence. Do not post depictions of traffic violence. NSFW or NSFL posts are not allowed. Gawking at crashes is not allowed. Be respectful to people who are a victim of traffic violence or otherwise traumatized by it. News articles about crashes and statistics about traffic violence are allowed. Glorifying traffic violence will get you banned.
No reposts. Before sharing, check if your post isn't a repost. Reposts that add something new are fine. Reposts that are sharing content from somewhere else are fine too.
No misinformation. Masks and vaccines save lives during a pandemic, climate change is real and anthropogenic - and denial of these and other established facts will get you banned. False or highly speculative titles will get your post deleted.
No harassment. Posts that (may) cause harassment, dogpiling or brigading, intentionally or not, will be removed. Please do not post screenshots containing uncensored usernames. Actual harassment, dogpiling or brigading is a bannable offence.
Please report posts and comments that violate our rules.
cross-posted from: https://hexbear.net/post/534457
Do you think Melbourne should bring them back?
it kills me that cargo trams aren't completely normal, especially when you have entire neighbourhoods built around the tramway with their own downtowns filled with stores, it makes so much sense to just run cargo trams there in the off-hours and offload things to the stores!
They should add rolling pubs as well. Imagine if you didn't have to bring your own longneck!
They had a restaurant tram (actually three) that were only cancelled in 2018!
Berlin also had a tram bar but I can't find any information about whether it's still running: https://urban-transit.tumblr.com/post/87126397871/berliner-fahrbar-the-party-tram-available-for (sorry for the Tumblr link)
Damn, didn't know they cancelled those restaurant trams, those were still on my to do list. I always saw them loading up at Whiteman Street and it seemed like a cool thing to do once.
Something like a food truck on rails could be cool as well. Like it rolls by and you grab a shawarma
Oh, I love that!
Obviously doesn't work everywhere but a lot of cities with rivers or canals have boat pubs that go up and down and around the place
They're pretty fun
Fascinating! I had no idea
Many cities tried cargo trams, and one would assume that the complete absence of them nowadays is for a good reason. Manual loading and unloading alone seems a complete nightmare. It's not worth the hassle.
Maybe. But there's too much of a chance that they were dropped within an unmitigated pro-car/truck frame of mind. It'd still be interesting to know what the tradeoffs are. For high density car free zones I'd bet they hold some potential value.
Viennas government always was very proud of their public transport department, it's one of their poster childs for showing off. I can guarantee you, if they could have made it work, they would.
Delivery cars are allowed in all car-free zones I'm aware of. And that's just fine. I know what community we are in, but those simply are necessary.
As with all things related to public transit, never assume the modern absence is for a good reason. Big car and big oil have spent a century shaping cities for their own benefit.
Freight doesn't move on its own, unlike passengers. For a freight tram to work, it would need to be extremely rapidly loaded and unloaded and not clog up the tracks while loading/unloading or have dedicated sidings which greatly increases infrastructure complexity. Freight trucks & vans have the benefit of being able to park kind of out of the way while a person unloads pallets and dollys of stuff.
Rail freight really makes the most sense for hub-hub movements or for pickup/dropoff of larger quantities of goods, its just too slow to load and unload to make much sense for last mile pickup/delivery in most cases with LCL loads unless its a large enough amount of stuff to warrant a siding, at which point you're at an electric engine picking up and dropping off freight cars so that they can be loaded/unloaded without tying up the engine from moving other freight cars.
I'm sure there's specific usecases where a freight tram would actually make sense, but I imagine most of those usecases would also be better served by a combine tram that does both passenger and freight
Freight trams "only" require a restructuring of how we handle cargo: the way i see it working is using trams to bring goods from the train terminal to small neighbourhood warehouses where it can there be brought to its destination via stuff like cargo bikes.
And of course in some situations (at least in the cities i've seen) you can just add a spur to the back of a store and treat it like a more efficient truck.
All that would do is increase handling effort and make shipping more expensive, with no benefit for companies except maybe greenwashing PR.
Let's try a real world example. From the outskirts of the city where the already mainline railway connected tram shed would be, into the city center. It's about a 45 minute tram trip, for which you'd have to load and unload the cargo on each end.
So, you unload the cargo from the train which takes time, store it in a warehouse. Later load it into the tram, should take about the same time as loading a truck. So far, so good.
But instead of just delivering the cargo to your customer directly, you drive it to another more central warehouse using the tram.
You unload the cargo again, and once again have to store it in a very expensive warehouse in the city center., until you can distribute it to cargo bikes. Which once again means handling the cargo.
Only then can you deliver your goods at the customer.
So instead of unloading / storing / loading / delivering at the customer, you've added another loading/unloading step, and another warehouse to rent in a more expensive area. Loading and unloading and warehouses are already is essentially the most expensive part of shipping anything - the transport on a train or truck itself is not that expensive.
There are specialized cases where cargo trams can work, but they are rare, and they do not involve delivering goods directly to stores, and do not involve expensive facilities in city centers.
In Dresden for example, VW used cargo trams the same way they would use mainline cargo trains - transporting car parts from one factory to another. That made sense, because both ends of the line already had cargo handling and warehouse facilities in inexpensive parts of the town, and only one loading/unloading cycle was needed. They needed no expensive inner city facilities and no further distribution.
But at that point, it doesn't really replace trucks, it just removes the need to connect your factory to the mainline rail network.
I'm a snow pea man myself