this post was submitted on 07 Mar 2025
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TenForward: Where Every Vulcan Knows Your Name

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[–] [email protected] 36 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (5 children)

Loads of people go on about how "awe shucks, we're in the Mad Max future, instead of the Star Trek future" completely unaware that Star Trek's utopia was built on top of the ruins of a Mad Max distopia that came first.

In canon, Star Trek's utopia only happened after Earth had a nuclear WWIII followed by the Eugenics War (and several related genocides) before first contact with the Vulcans. In fact, without those wars, we might not have gotten the tech for warp drive. In further lore, after the wars of the 21st century and before first contact, there was a concerted "never again" kind of movement globally eventually resulting in the United Earth government being founded. It then took more than a century of technological and societal progress to get to the matter replicator driven post-scarcity economy.

So we could be on track for Star Trek future... but none of us will be alive to see it.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 days ago (3 children)

Star Trek canon is that humans suddenly acted completely differently than they had throughout their entire history. I don't think that's gonna happen.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

The book "Dawn of Everything" by David Graeber and David Wengrow makes a strong case that our current way of structuring society and exploiting eachother is actually an aberration from the norm based on archeological evidence, where it appears we were far more egalitarian and collective.

Here's a summary from Wengrow himself in video form: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8SJi0sHrEI4

So the Star Trek future may in fact be a return to our previous state.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

I don't know in fairness an actual all-out nuclear war would probably do it. Mostly people are alright, the problem is governments and corporations which presumably wouldn't survive a nuclear war.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 days ago

I think it's reasonable that post-scarcity can be self-reinforcing

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 days ago

The mirror Star Trek happened when Zephram Cochrane shot and killed the Vulcans arriving to greet them instead of shaking their hand. The nearby people stormed the ship and raided the weapons, using them to conquer the rest of Earth.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 days ago

And further more the Vulcans did not manage this rapid transition away from armed conflict and instead had thousand years of war. They were impressed and scared but the humans adapting this quickly breeding doubts in their restraints from violence.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 days ago

I know, I know, I was just hoping that we could skip the foreplay? Damn it all.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 days ago (1 children)

none of us will be alive to see it.

Montana looked like a safe place to survive

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago

And apparently San Francisco survived, even though you would have thought it would have been a target, and Paris, and London.

Really it seems to have been an incredibly restrained war. Nothing of any actual value appears to have been destroyed.

[–] [email protected] 67 points 4 days ago (4 children)

They want the Terran Empire, but instead we have the Ferangi Commerce Authority. And only barely.

[–] [email protected] 39 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I feel like we're the pakleds at this point

[–] [email protected] 33 points 4 days ago (1 children)

MAGA: “We are smart. We make economy go.”

[–] [email protected] 15 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Did you notice that Elon has started wearing a bigger baseball cap than Trump's?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago

Well it's traditional for the wives to wear large hats.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 days ago

The ferengi can actually run a business

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 days ago (1 children)

we have the Ferangi Commerce Authority. And only barely.

Obligatory Quark rant

I feel like I'm gonna be getting a lot of mileage out of that link in the near future; this is already the second time in a few days I've had cause to post it.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 4 days ago (1 children)

One of the best parts of Deep Space Nine is taking the problematic Ferangi and using them to roast he shit out of Humanity for seven seasons.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 days ago (1 children)

It's impressive how radical DS9 was, and yet no one complained. I don't know if people just didn't notice or if it was just better times then. I'm sure if it were made today you'd hear non-stop complaining from a certain segment of society about it being "woke" (which it is, in a good way) and bad. They even justify the use of terrorism as a tool against oppressive regimes!

DS9 is, by far, the best ST has ever been I think. It's always been progressive, but almost always in a "things will just work out" sort of way. It didn't actually deal with how we need to act to create the future we want. It just says that the ideal future is inclusive of everyone, which is great but limited. DS9 wasn't afraid to say there's almost no method off limits against (figurative) fascist oppressors and, like you mention, really go to town on roasting capitalists and warning us to be afraid of them.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

DS9 has

Religion Apologia (Bajoran Prophets)

War Crimes Apologia (Siskos multiple war crimes)

CIA Apologia (Glamorization of Section 31)

Nationalist War Glamorization (Dominion Federation War)

The entire last two seasons are nothing but glamorizing a traditional "good vs evil" war with the Federation basically serving the role of a nationalist hegemonic superpower.

I like Deep Space Nine, but to act like it's anything but the degeneration of Star Trek into its most base capitalist apologia spacewar elements is a stretch.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago

I have to disagree. DS9 definitely had some problematic episodes, like any show with that many episodes, but the positives IMO definitely outway the negatives especially in the aspects you mention:

  • Religion is not shown as one dimensional, positive or negative. It's clearly shown to be abused as a tool to control populations (the Dominion), and as something that can be abused to wield power including religious leaders that obviously don't follow their own teachings (Kai Winn).

  • Re war crimes apologia: I give you that, but I'd attribute that to bad writing of some episodes (For the Uniform is simply an awful episode) or is clearly shown as being problematic (e.g. In the Pale Moonlight, and that episode is simply a masterpiece)

  • Section 31 is never glamorized. On the contrary, Odo clearly calls out the Federation when they don't want to counteract the genocide of the founders started by Section 31.

  • War is not glamorized, DS9 is the first Star Trek show to really show what war does to people. Nog's PTSD, Quark's take on humankind just as some examples.

Not to forget when they stop a fear-mongering fueled coup attempt on the federation.

I also disagree that it in any way is "capitalist apologia". While other Star Trek shows are just hand-waving "post scarcity" around without ever explaining how the monetary system of the Federation actually works, and some weak-ass attempts to criticize capitalism with this one guy who had stocks in the 90s on TNG, DS9 clearly and openly attacks capitalism with their characterization of the Ferengi throughout the whole show.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago

The religion thing I dismiss as just sci-fi magic. Their religion is based on alien stuff. Sure, religions in our world are wrong, but you can't travel faster than light either so we might as well dismiss the whole show, right?

For example, in Stargate SG1 almost all the civilizations view the gua'uld as gods. When technology is so far beyond your understanding, it's effectively magic. In that show religion is often said to be wrong, but not for any reason besides the ones they worship are evil. For the Norse people worshiping the "good" aliens it's fine, and they might as well be gods with their technology.

The people of Bajor interacted with aliens and created a religion to help them understand it. I don't think that's apologia. I think that's a reasonable analogue for what we do too. We don't understand lighting? It's God/Thor/Zeus.

[–] [email protected] 40 points 4 days ago (1 children)

That's why Ireland didn't reunite last year.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 4 days ago (2 children)

...and in stead of the Bell Riots, we got the clearing of Gaza...boo...

[–] [email protected] 13 points 4 days ago

We have the sanctuary zones, though!

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 days ago

Well they did win the franchise wars

[–] [email protected] 37 points 4 days ago (3 children)

Parmesan is now pronounced parmesean.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Thai is now pronounced thigh.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 days ago

Ooh, I like both! ;3

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 days ago
[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 days ago

you just gave me an idea for the worst stop motion picture i gotta run this by my director and maybe the entire nation of italy

[–] [email protected] 31 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I wasn't 100% sure what the mirror universe Starfleet logo was, and I was ready to accept that as the musk/Trump logo for real.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 4 days ago

Pfft, that would require an actual cool thought to cross their corrupted brains lmao

[–] [email protected] 19 points 4 days ago

Remember, the prime universe Earth had to endure WWIII

[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Nah, remember that in star trek we had to go through WWIII before shit got better

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 days ago
[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)