this post was submitted on 03 Feb 2025
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Electoral politics doesn't get the job done (lemmy.world)
submitted 2 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/24998458

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[–] [email protected] 71 points 2 days ago (16 children)

It is both.

Voting is a good system. The alternative is "let's just have a fight with guns, or with money, or connections to powerful people, every time there's a disagreement."

The problem is that we delegated the process of informing people what to vote for, to absolutely rotten media. And we delegated the process of figuring out the details of putting some candidates forward, to an absolutely craven, useless, and corrupt class of full-time political operatives who generally don't give a shit about the people.

We need to fix those things. And yes, getting organized labor to fight back whenever they are fucking us, which is pretty much every day, to add some bite to all those polite ballots we're sending in, sounds great.

But voting, as a concept, is good. It doesn't have to be either or. It can be a 10-day general strike, and also voting to get rid of the guy who wants to nuke Iceland, and also organizing our politics better, for some candidates that aren't so shit as these ones generally are. Each one will help the others get done.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 days ago (4 children)

The media will always exist and people will always base their decisions on the information they receive in the media. This is inevitable in any society with the degree of complexity we have today. It is just not possible to gather all the information ourselves about any but the most personal of topics. That is why free, unbiased, and independent media is an extremely important part of liberal electoral democracy. And for the greater part of the past two centuries, this is what we more or less had. Yes, major media outlets have always been somewhat controlled by the upper class (whether in the form of media companies or local media magnates), but until quite recently, most of them didn't care about using those outlets as propaganda pieces; they just cared about continuing to collect their subscription money, which is likely the best-case scenario for privately owned for-profit media. It is astonishing that this system lasted as long as it did.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 days ago (4 children)

Who the hell can afford to go one day without pay, let alone 10?

[–] [email protected] 14 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Start saving now, start learning how to fix things, grow food, make do with less.

A whole lot of people may not have any choice about going without pay for awhile, much less one day, the time to start preparing is now. I tell people as often as I can, especially my trans and bipoc friends; now is the time. Get a couple guns (a long one and a short one) and learn how to use them. Learn some basic first aid, you really just need to know how to stabilize someone. Start networking with like-minded people in your communities, learn how to to grow food and repair things.

The police will not protect us, they’ve proven they’ll happily club senior citizens to the ground and shoot any protesters in the face with rubber bullets while escorting a rightwing murderer to safety. Iran was a secular, liberal state until almost 1980 when they (mostly legitimately) elected an Islamist theocracy; it could happen here.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Start saving now

Saving what?

grow food

How do you do that in a small apartment?

make do with less.

You sound like you've never lived in poverty. Unfortunately, millions of Americans do.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Saving what?

Anything you can. Rice and beans.

How do you do that in a small apartment?

In small planters I guess.

You know shit about me Squid, I grew up dirt poor in the ozarks. Don't lecture me about poverty while you flee the country. Wtf are you gonna do when the SS comes knocking on your door? Buy a plane ticket? You're poking a lot of holes but I don't see any action plans from your safe haven in England, just a lot of flak for people with skin in the game.

Ya'll acting like you can discuss your way out of a camp are playing with your own lives (and those of your families). Maybe you don't have anything at risk, that's great disregard what I'm saying. But if you're a trans/queer/non-Christian "other" maybe it's a good time to look into protecting your and yours.

Or you can listen to the... idk, are they supposed solutions? And ignore what's happening in our country. Personally I'd recommend getting some protection before they decide you have a mental illness and aren't allowed to have one.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I didn't lecture you about anything, but if you grew up "dirt poor," like you claim you did, then I would think that you would understand that people in poverty do not have anything to save.

Also, the idea that you could feed yourself and your kids with what you grow in small planters in an apartment (before they kick you out for not paying rent because you lost your job due to being out protesting) is not how the universe works.

I assume you are now going to make the suggestion I saw someone make the other day and let their kids eat out of dumpsters.

Also, I am sorry, but this is fucking stupid:

Or you can listen to the… idk, are they supposed solutions? And ignore what’s happening in our country and get some protection before they decide you have a mental illness and aren’t allowed to have one.

You do not automatically come up with good solutions which are beyond criticism and people who criticize them aren't people who are just ignoring things.

Sorry, you're not a god.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (29 children)

My dirt poor aunt has a closet full of canned goods, she saves her excess.

Do you think Trump is a risk? You fled for that very reason right? Would you have suggested Jews disarm in the run up to the Holocaust? Not all of us have the resources to flee dude, despite your implication that I have some sort of wealth, which is rich coming from someone who legitimately was able to relocate.

You do not automatically come up with good solutions which are beyond criticism and people who criticize them aren’t people who are just ignoring things.

The only criticism I saw was "no that won't work!" from someone who's already ensured his safety. I'm all for sharing ideas if you have any Squid but maybe all you have to contribute is "no!" maybe you could lurk more and let the people facing the risk face it.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago

Get a couple guns (a long one and a short one) and learn how to use them.

This is a pretty intense topic to get involved with.

I dithered a little bit about getting a firearm. I still do not have one. I know how to use them, in a cursory kind of way.

Part of why I've held back on getting one is this: Imagine playing a board game for the first time, and if you lose, you're going to die. Or sitting down at a poker table to play for the first time in your life. How well are you going to play? Are you probably going to win? Also, the game only lasts for fifteen seconds.

Having a gun sounds like not a bad idea for what's coming up in this country. Having a gun and no experience at all in the types of situations you might get yourself into, if you have a gun, sounds almost worse than just not having one. People freak out, they fuck up, they take the wrong decisions. It's what naturally happens when you're playing an adversarial game for the first time in your life. After a while, you learn the game, and you start making generally good decisions a lot more of the time. But the first time...

I'm not saying having a gun is a bad idea. There are days when I think I'm being stupid for not having one. But also, you need to know what you're doing, and if you don't have some kind of military or other professional training, you're not going to know what you're doing, and you can walk yourself into situations there's no good way out of if you don't know what you're doing.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago

A gun is going to be at least what - $500?

If I had $500 lying around, that’d be a down payment on an apartment in a place where they can’t fire you for being a tranny.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Get ready for 2028. That is the year, right?

US laws offers enough protections for legal strikes that unions follow the law so they can't do solidarity strikes. UAW is aligning their contract renewals for 2028, so it can happen then. But also if they repeal the nlra there will be little incentive to not start doing solidarity strikes.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Electoral politics doesn't get the job done, but failing to attend to electoral politics can sure as shit make the job harder.

The question of "Who are we negotiating with" is all-important in every scenario except "Complete and total unconditional victory".

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Yeah, with all those general strikes we've had they must be really easy to organize!

[–] [email protected] 25 points 2 days ago (3 children)

This is what bothers me so much about the constant calls for general strikes on social media. They’re almost never paired with serious organization (ex: where are the strike funds to support people who otherwise can’t afford to miss paychecks?)

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 days ago

Not to mention a large chunk of the public won't agree with the idea to begin with. Especially the top 20-30% of income earners.

Additionally, emergency/medical personnel not working would mean people are directly dying as a result of it, creating easy negative PR against the movement.

Asking 180+ million people to coordinate on anything is a farce, and for something like a general strike it is an absolute fantasy.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Have you noticed they’re always paired with messages encouraging voter apathy and disparticipation ?

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

I'll do you all a favor and tag the people and voices you should not listen to. They want you to live in subjugation.

Edit: there are 350 million people in the USA. We do not need concensus.

Edit2: do not ask for your rights. Do not argue for your rights. Fight for your rights.

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