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The prices are high, but what really is shocking are the power consumption figures. The 5090 is 575W(!!), while the 5080 is 360W, 5070Ti is 300W, and the 5070 is 250W.
If you are getting one of these, factor in the cost of a better PSU and your electric bill too. We're getting closer and closer to the limit of power from a US electrical socket.
1000W PSU pulls max 8.3A on a 120v circuit.
Residential circuits in USA are 15-20A, very rarely are they 10 but I've seen some super old ones or split 20A breakers in the wild.
A single duplex outlet must be rated to the same amperage as the breaker in order to be code, so with a 5090 PC you're around half capacity of what you'd normally find, worst case. Nice big monitors take about an amp each, and other peripherals are negligible.
You could easily pop a breaker if you've got a bunch of other stuff on the same circuit, but that's true for anything.
I think the power draw on a 5090 is crazy, crazy high don't get me wrong, but let's be reasonable here - electricity costs yes, but we're not getting close to the limits of a circuit/receptacle (yet).
Actually the National Electric Code (NEC) limits loads for 15 Aac receptacles to 12 Aac, and for 20 Aac receptacles 16 Aac iirc because those are the breaker ratings and you size those at 125% of the load (conversely, 1/125% = 80% where loads should be 80% of the break ratings).
So with a 15 Aac outlet and a 1000 Wac load at minimum 95% power factor, you're drawing 8.8 Aac which is ~73% of the capacity of the outlet (8.8/12). For a 20 Aac outlet, 8.8 Aac is ~55%% capacity (8.8/16).
Nonetheless, you're totally right. We're not approaching the limit of the technology unlike electric car chargers.
The NEC limits CONTINUOUS loads to 80%, not intermittent loads. Continuous loads are things like heaters, AC units, etc. Things plugged into the wall are generally not considered continuous loads, so your breakers in a residential home are usually not derated, and receptacles never are from what I've seen. (Although it could be argued that a gaming computer would be a continuous load, as it runs 3+ hours for many people, but there's still no electrician that would treat it that way, probably ever, unless it was some kind of commercial space that rented gaming seats or something. Either way it would be planned in advance)
The rule that you're describing is for the initial planning of the circuit. It's for the rating of your wires and overcurrent protections, which is done at the time of installation, based on the expected continuous and intermittent loads. For residential planning nobody treats a standard branch circuit for wall receptacles as somewhere you'd derate, so your 15A circuit is a 15A circuit, you don't need to do any more math on it and derate it further.
You could make the argument that people with 5090s do run their PCs longer than 3 hours since those folk are more prone to longer bouts of gaming to feel like they're returning on their expensive investment. And as the capabilities of our PCs become more and more robust, it will likely mean that people will more and more need to consider whether the circuit they're plugging into will take the load they're giving it.
Doesn't hurt to plan for the future regarding building wiring, since most tech folk do so regarding their PC builds.
But, up on further inspection... I may be inclined to agree with you. See this thread from licensed and qualified professionals in the space.
It seems that homeowners are given a special class of immunity when it comes to manifesting hazards associated with their use of electricity. Whether or not that immunity should be granted, given that improper use of electrical equipment in a household can lead to fires and cause undue harm to the community at large, I think is up for debate.
You could make the argument that people with 5090s do run their PCs longer than 3 hours since those folk are more prone to longer bouts of gaming
I think this is what I said also, yes
Doesn't hurt to plan for the future regarding building wiring, since most tech folk do so regarding their PC builds.
I completely agree. IMO 15A convenience circuits (normal wall circuits in residential homes) are out of date and shouldn't be used any longer. 20A should be the minimum, but that extra copper is expensive, so it's a balance that has to be weighed at construction.
seems that homeowners are given a special class of immunity when it comes to manifesting hazards associated with their use of electricity
No, I don't think that's what this is. The fact is that the NEC is for building design, not for building use. The whole reason that there's a breaker installed that has to be matched to the correct gauge wires and the correct outlets, or whatever, is so that when the occupant does something dumb it trips long before you get enough heat to start a fire.
The NEC is not for the occupant, it's for the architects, general contractors, and electricians. Unless you're doing construction in your house you don't need to worry about it at all.
Use your breakers to their capacity, but understand that the closer you get to their rating the more likely you'll pop a breaker, or worst case start a fire if your stuff wasn't installed well.
But you don't have to derate your own stuff per NEC requirements, that's not how it works.
The NEC is not for the occupant, it's for the architects, general contractors, and electricians. Unless you're doing construction in your house you don't need to worry about it at all.
What I'm arguing and what those in the link I shared above argue though is that if a homeowner finds that their new PC setup is drawing more than a 15 Aac circuit breaker allows, then they have two choices: 1) downgrade the PC, or 2) upgrade the building wiring. And if they choose the latter, then they can either 1) do the upgrades themselves or 2) have those architects, general contractors, and electricians do it for them.
While I would want to think that homeowners would prefer qualified personnel do installations on their premises because such personnel understand the hazards and code requirements, I don't think that ends up happening in many instances. If a homeowner wants to upsize their 15 Aac circuit to 20 Aac, they have now crossed the line from electricity "user" to electricity "installer", hence activating the NEC.
If an installer knows that they're going to install a 20 Aac breaker, then they must follow the portions of the NEC code limiting the load on that breaker to 80%. For the homeowner, they know which loads they want to hang, so this automatically means they can't load more than 16 Aac. If instead the homeowner were to contract an electrician to do the work, it would be up to the homeowner to not disclose what kind of load they wish to place on this circuit to the electrician so there isn't established any grounds for code violation. Bear in mind that like you say even if you run more than 16 Aac on a 20 Aac breaker it's going to work; what we're discussing is code violation and grounds for revoking licenses of practicing electricians, architects, engineers, etc. - and you may argue that if a homeowner does the install then they have no license to revoke, in which case should they have done the install to begin with? We run into a circle.
or worst case start a fire if your stuff wasn't installed well.
I would wager to say that there are many competent and incompetent electricians and inspectors out in the world, and as much as we wish for good intent, I still believe greed and convenience exist to counteract that.
If you live in an older house/apartment that was built before the 1970s/1980s, perhaps a good rule of thumb would be to derate your circuits given the uncertainty surrounding those installations. If after, or if your building has undergone electrical renovations specific to the circuit you wish to load with your beast of a PC, perhaps homeowners/apartment dwellers can be more confident that they'll be safe.
As an engineer myself, I tend to lean on the safer side of things by virtue of not knowing the unknown (and to save my own ass), but I recognize that that virtue isn't respected by everyone. Just be safe people!
It's clear what must be done - all US household sockets must be changed to 220V. Sure, it'll be a notable expense, but it's for the health of the gaming industry.
It'll buy us about 8 more years. At this rate, the TGP is increasing at about 10% per year:
3090: Late 2020, 350W 4090: Late 2022, 450W 5090: Early 2025, 575W
Therefore, around 2037, a single 90-tier GPU will pop a 110V breaker, and by 2045, it will pop a 220V breaker too.
/s
Don't be silly.
Just move your PC to your laundry room and plug it into the 240V dryer outlet.
Going to need to run a separate PSU on a different branch circuit at this rate.
Just using this thread as a reminder the new Intel Arc B580 is showing 4060 performance for only $250
From google:
The RTX 4090 was released as the first model of the series on October 12, 2022, launched for $1,599 US, and the 16GB RTX 4080 was released on November 16, 2022 for $1,199 US.
So they dropped the 80 series in price by $200 while increasing the 5090 by $400.
Pretty smart honestly. Those who have to have the best are willing to spend more and I’m happy the 80 series is more affordable.
I’m happy the 80 series is more affordable
I'd hardly call $1200 affordable.
It’s $999 now which is more affordable than $1200
I just...I just don't need fps and resolution that much. Godspeed to those that feel they do need it.
No one should, video graphics haven't progressed that far. Only the lack of optimisation has.
You're missing a major audience willing to pay $2k for these cards, people wanting to run large AI language models locally.
VR enthusiasts can put it to use. The higher end headsets have resolutions of over 5000 x 5000 pixels per eye.
You are basically rendering the entire game twice, once for each eye, and the resolution is like eight times as many pixels compared to your typical 1080p game
I'm staying on 1440p deliberately. My 3080 is still perfectly fine for a few more years, at least current console gen.
Yeah sure, the 5090 will be a 2k the same way a 3080 went for 800...i watched them peak at 3500 (seriously, i screenshotted it but it got lost as i gave up the salt).
The 4090 is sitting at 2400 ($2500)right now over here, i can 100% assure you the 5090 will cost more than that when it gets here.
Where is "over here"? I want to sell my 4090 to your people and turn a nice profit.
Welp, looks like I'll start looking at AMD and Intel instead. Nvidia is pricing itself at a premium that's impossible to actually meet compared to competitors.
There will be people that buy it. Professionals that can actually use the hardware and can justify it via things like business tax benefits, and those with enough money to waste that it doesn't matter.
For everyone else, competitors are going to be much better options. Especially with Intel's very fast progression into the dedicated card game with Arc and generational improvements.
575W TDP is an absolute fucking joke.
And this is BEFORE the tariffs!
But you see because of the tariffs the American gamers will just default to American GPUs, duh.
5000 series cards are made for idiots
5000 series cards are made for professionals and idiots
I’m here to represent the professionals ∩ idiots. We exist too.
Although seeing those prices is reminding me my mobile 3070 has been perfectly usable
Some people don't care about spending $2000 for whatever. I mean, I'm not one of those people but they probably exist.
Yeah, it’s all priorities. I don’t see myself buying a $2000 GPU any time soon, but if I was single and playing PC games every day in 4K or VR, I could get thousands of hours of use over the next few years from that GPU.
Compare that with other types of entertaining products and activities (vacations, cars, etc) and it starts to look not bad in comparison.
Still not in the plans for my particular situation though, lol.
I'm probably one of those people. I don't have kids, I don't care much about fun things like vacations, fancy food, or yearly commodity electronics like phones or leased cars, and I'm lucky enough to not have any college debt left.
A Scrooge McDuck vault of unused money isn't going to do anything useful when I'm 6 feet underground, so I might as well spend a bit more (within reason*) on one of the few things that I do get enjoyment out of.
* Specifically: doing research on what I want; waiting for high-end parts to go on sale; never buying marked-up AIB partner GPUs; and only actually upgrading things every 5~6 years after I've gotten good value out of my last frivolous purchase.
What's with this new trend of CEOs wearing leather jackets, as if they're cool people? Put your fucking suits back on, assholes.
I mean, Jensen was always pretty casual comparatively speaking.
The 2k USD price is surely only in order to make the cheaper cards appear reasonably priced.
I really wanted a 512bit-bussy GPU for a decade+ ... but perhaps never is just as good.