A place to discuss positive changes that can make work more equitable, and to vent about current practices. We are NOT against work; we just want the fruits of our labor to be recognized better.
Our Philosophies:
Our Goals
We had some slight pushing into going into the office more, but instead of firing people, it was decided to switch to a smaller office space, so the people who like to work in an office can do so, and less money is wasted on a mostly empty office
Understandable that this is not an option for all companies, but insane that people are happier losing talent than at least trying to work something out
When the CEO personally owns the building and leases the office space to the company, that's not an option.
Then he should act like any other office building owner and rent some space to other companies.
Bonus points if he gets with the future and works to convert some of the building to living space so people don't have to travel to get to work. Not everybody will want that, but it will appeal to enough to make it worth doing. Shopping malls across the country are being converted to such hybrid spaces so most everything one needs is within a convenient distance.
Bold of you to assume he already doesn't. But WFH across many industries drives down urban office space value overall.
i think you fundamentally misunderstand the motivations involved that would lead to the CEO owning the office real estate. commercial real estate is a means for them to siphon profits from the business, not a genuine attempt to provide a valuable service to anyone.
Then he should act like any other office building owner and rent some space to other companies.
There are more buildings/office spaces to rent than people wanting office space these days. There are LOTS of empty unrented buildings. He would have difficulty even finding a tenant.
Bonus points if he gets with the future and works to convert some of the building to living space so people don’t have to travel to get to work.
An exceptionally small number (we're talking single digits in the world) of Class A office buildings are good candidates for this, and these are typically done with grants/subsidies from state or local governments. These are only in the most lucrative geographic locations where housing is at an absolute premium regardless of the cost.
For good value of converting office space look at Class C buildings. These are typically older and smaller office buildings (think built in 1910s-1950s). In these, there are ways to make cost effective residential conversions and these are happening by the dozen now.
then it's not wasted money is it
Ours tried full RTO, and then they compromised with hybrid WFH when they lost many skilled people who had been there for 10+ years to remote positions at other companies. Sometimes with little to no warning.
Some execs gotta learn the hard way.
I work in commercial real estate. Two years before the start of the pandemic, my company considered downsizing our office to have most employees work from home and just come in when needed. We also discussed how we expected the office building market to struggle in the future. (Thinking in 10 years, not two).
Anyways, we got a deal from the property owners to sign another lease, so we stayed put. And now, big surprise, they forced RTO. Someone asked our president about it in a quarterly call. He basically said “we’re never ever going back to WFH and you can quit if you don’t like it”.
So, naturally, we’re struggling with turn over and our headcount is down about around 10% so far.
For many of us, our teams are split up amongst multiple offices so there is no difference from working in the office and working from home. It’s all about that empty lease.
Also! I should add that for many property owners in commercial real estate, they can be “punished” for tenants that go dark, or stop operating at the location, even if they are still paying rent.
For example, say you own a strip mall with a grocery store and a few restaurants. If the grocery store stops operating in that location, there are less customers at the restaurants, making it more likely that they will stop paying rent also.
Yeah, too bad that a condo refit of a building is super expensive and needs some deep pockets to actually do it. Still worth the consideration if the building is a good candidate.
You would think that of all people, rich CEOs would understand the concept of the sunk cost fallacy.
The money on desks, rent, insurance, etc. is already spent. You're not getting it back. Asking people to come back to the office "so that it doesn't go to waste" assumes that you aren't taking on additional costs for people coming to the office.
You now have worn carpet, doors, pens, paper, etc...money you could have saved if you weren't such a knob.
Are you really suggesting that you expect CEOs to be competent? Scamming people and exploiting workers doesn't require skills, except if immorality is one.
Immorality is sadly a skill, ignoring that voice in your head that says "This doesn't feel right, we can't go othrough with this" and the one that says "Look what we're doing to them!?! We have to make this right!"
Is very hard to do for people like you and I.
You would think that of all people, rich CEOs would understand the concept of the sunk cost fallacy.
I'd expect that of someone who has to make hard decisions and work hard to get where they are.
A Nepo-Baby is neither of these things.
Early in the pandemic, our CEO asked why we paid so much for real estate if everyone could work from home. They've been trimming leases as quickly as they can.
We've been hiring people who live out of state. They only come onsite very rarely, maybe only once a year.
My company did that too, then they replaced us with cheaper labor from overseas.
Ours did that before the pandemic and not my area. Within a year, it went back to what it was because of how terrible the quality was. Now they are dumping all the buildings that aren't needed and sent a lot of us home. Of course, the main product that my job deals with needs buildings for machines to work so they didn't get rid of everything. No more corporate, and for now, we are all home for the foreseeable future. I also wonder when they will get the bright idea to start outsourcing again now that it's been like 7 years...
At least one in three bosses are shitty bosses. If their responsibility is to the company and the shareholders, telecommuting saves a ton of time and money.
Also, for those companies that love to position themselves as "green", commuting is a horrendous waste of resources and a cause of pollution. My company preaches about how important it is to lower your carbon footprint, then institutes policies that increase carbon footprints by the tens of thousands and don't even blink.
We don't even have the office space anymore for full RTO. If at some day too many people would go into the office some wouldn't have desks to work on...
Same here. A smart CEO wouldn't force RTO, they would lease out that unused space or expand using those unused desks.
Bunch of real Einstein's running these places, huh? Fucking morons, just don't waste the money leasing large offices.
It's all about status. Big building = big dick. And more buildings spread all over the place is the equivalent to them having tons of kids.
It's such a primitive, ape-brain thing to do, but that's how these psychopaths operate.
Seriously. Every job I had, the C-level were all about flexing the size of the company.
One Fintech company I worked at got a giant skyscraper in front of city hall as a Fuck You to the mayor because they had beef with them a few years back. Another tech company constantly bragged about how much square footage of campus they had, constantly comparing themselves to empires.
All just dick measuring.
I guess they should enjoy the consequences of their actions like... regular people do?
Or maybe these bosses just aren't good at what they do. After all, they wasted millions on real estate and empty desks. Shouldn't the shareholders be demanding new leadership?
Why do we have to preface this with “Like Elon Musk…”?
Who cares what that nonce thinks? Surely not anyone who would read this article or be receptive to its content.
Probably (at least in the US perspective) he's the CEO of 3 companies and is going to be a high ranking government official.
Convert to apartments
Make profit
Tada!
I agree this is what should be done! Though it is surprising challenging to convert an office building to an apartment.
One issue, for example, is that the plumbing and electricity lines tend to be located on one end of the building. If you want to convert it to apartments, you have to reroute all the plumbing.
In the US, there are also rules about the number of stair cases. That’s why many apartments here are long and flat buildings of 3-4 floors rather than taller, taking up less space.
When the lockdowns happened due to COVID, it was just incredible at the sheer number of jobs that could have been done at home.
Some people, like Sam Seder from The Majority Report, speculated that people will use this in the future to leverage their power as employees for added privacy and flexibility in working.
The other thing is that businesses could save on massive costs by simply not, as others have mentioned here, leasing/building/renting/whatever large office spaces, and those former office spaces can be made into something else, like more afforable housing.
But everyone just kinda forgot, or seriously underestimated, at the desire for businesses to have control over their employees. This is one major reason why so many businesses want private healthcare. It allows them to fuck over their employees more than they would otherwise, even if it is much more expensive for them to do so than just paying a tax for public healthcare.
I thought it was because they couldn't make friends & wanted to force people to be around them.
That's so, so stupid... They really are the dumbest of morons. They lost money, so they waste even more money and make their best workers flee.
This article misses the real point.. they want voluntary turnover, when you layoff there's severance and unemployment costs...
I think some of them are also doing it for the tax breaks they get if they pump a bunch of employees into the local area's economy.
And we all know how difficult is is to get companies to voluntarily give up free tax money from the government. It's like trying to take drugs away from an addict.
Corporate "Welfare Queens"
Ah, RTO = return to office. That took me a while ..
If you want to open your eyes even more, check out the neat overlap between commercial real estate and large businesses that require an office. Often, it's one and the same, so it's easy to see why they wouldn't want their buildings nearly empty.
Unless they signed long leases with “commercial real estate” the company can just you know save a load of money not renting those spaces and just liquidate the office for quick cash.
Or if they own, they can always sell unless “it’s an investment” so we can sell it in the future for more.
A company I worked for got into a long lease for 3 floors in an office building. Never used one of them. Ended up subletting it to another company until they were out of that lease.
But you can only sell if someone is buying, and the moment you list that huge skyscraper on the market and find out that the only offers you're getting are 1/10 the asking price, suddenly the other massive commercial buildings you have on your balance sheets (and those of all your rich buddies) suddenly drop 90% in value, and it's revealed the emperor has no clothes
Sell the desks, save money on the office, utilities, and office supplies?
One of the only aspects of my previous employer that was smart and well-run was the attitude about RTO. Before the pan, the owner was planning to rent a second space in the same building to expand. Post-pan, we did a six week experiment where everyone came back two days per week. The metrics didn't meaningfully change and we downsized. Everyone became fully remote unless they needed supplies from the office for a client.
They managed everything terribly, but at least got that right.
How was this not obvious when the panic set in with the pandemic.
It's never about productivity, it's always about increasing value.