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Judge compares gender-affirming care to cigarettes & beer while upholding youth ban (www.lgbtqnation.com)

submitted 15 hours ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

30 comments fedilink hide all child comments

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Reed maintained the hospital treated many patients with mental health problems without comprehensive psychological evaluations; at trial, there was disagreement over whether a licensed therapist’s evaluation was enough to warrant gender-affirming care or if a psychologist or psychiatrist should be a requirement.

Therapist: spends hours establishing a relationship with the patients in order to gain a fundamental understanding of their issues.

Psychiatrist: Try these pills, idk.

All this establishes that mental healthcare in this country is a fucking joke.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 hours ago

No. Jokes are funny. Its that thing fascists do where they say it was a joke if you call them on their shit.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

Wright County Circuit Court Judge Craig Carter wrote, “If we don’t let a 16-year-old buy a six-pack of beer and a pack of smokes

I am normally the last person to give a shit about overly informal language, but for fucks fucking sake Missouri, you couldn't find one person in your state with the intellectual capacity to realize that "If the state does not permit the purchase of alcohol nor tobacco by minors" maybe sounds a bit more serious? Like, the actual ruling itself is an offensive embarrassment, but I really can't get over the fact that it's written like a freakin facebook post.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

Get ready for 4 years of government officials trying not to sound too 'elitist'

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

The English language will eventually deteriorate into a hybrid of hillbilly, valley girl, Inner City, and various grunts.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 hours ago

As a Redneck with a less than intelligent dialect, I find this concept annoying. I can at least use big words, I am just bad at expressing my ideas. The last part aint even the dialect its the Autism.

[–] [email protected] 53 points 14 hours ago (2 children)

This a wealth of studies showing cigarettes and beer negatively affect your health, while gender affirming cares improves and extends it. These are not even remotely comparable.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (1 children)

Gender affirming surgeries have a lower regret rate than Harry Potter tattoos

I imagine gender affirming care as a whole is even lower (since not everyone wants surgery)

[–] [email protected] 14 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Can confirm anecdotally. Have a Harry Potter tattoo from when I was 18, am trans. Only one of them I regret and it’s not transitioning.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

Out of curiosity how bad we talking here? Like are we talking deathly hallows symbol, or Dobby.Goatse.Cx?

Edit: for fucks sake it made a link, I am not touching that thing. Click at thine own perril.

[+] [email protected] -8 points 13 hours ago (4 children)

What I seriously can't estimate is, how persistent is gender identification in youths?

I mean, children and teenagers are generally idiots (I certainly was). As far as I know, there's no physiological test to determine trans identity, so an outside observer has a really hard time distinguishing real and "fake" trans identity. I'm not even talking about willful deceit, but just the general instability of kids.

So, I can understand that people are hesitant to allow gender affirming care, because they fear they might do more harm than good. Especially if you're somewhat older, all those trans issues must seem like a new trend, I certainly didn't hear much about them 10 years ago. Unless there's something like a proper scientific guideline, all judges and doctors are basically forced to judge themselves and will probably stick to the "old ways".

As always: further research is needed.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 hours ago

I'm gay. I wasn't sure when I was a teenager but I suspected. I never felt like I was the wrong sex.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago) (2 children)

As always: further research is needed.

You sound well meaning but uniformed. Sure more research is always good but this is already a very well understood field and I have ample sources to prove it.

I can understand that people are hesitant to allow gender affirming care, because they fear they might do more harm than good.

First off, there is absolutely zero surgeries being performed on minors. This is not happening. What is happening is puberty blockers and hormone replacement therapy, both of which are non-permanent. And once someone becomes an adult and begins more permanent affirming care, the rate of people experiencing regret is laughably low.

A total of 27 studies, pooling 7928 transgender patients who underwent any type of GAS, were included. The pooled prevalence of regret after GAS was 1%.

all those trans issues must seem like a new trend, I certainly didn't hear much about them 10 years ago

I think you need to understand your personal limitations. Because it's really not new, I mean I can point to ancient history with people like Empress Elagabalus, but if we just want to talk about modern medical transition there is Dr. Alan Hart in 1917 or Christine Jorgensen in 1952 a WW2 vet that made national headlines. The diagonosis of gender dysphoria has existed in the DSM since 1980. Trans identity or medical transitions is very far from a new concept.

Unless there's something like a proper scientific guideline,

Every major field of related medicine abundantly agrees that this is safe and necessary treatment. Such as American Academy of Pediatrics, American Medical Association and American Psychiatric Association.

There are already numerous safeguards, such as to receive any gender affirming care (which is only ever provided to adults) requires multiple years on reversible Hormones and then letters of support form two separate psychiatrists.

Weather or not a doctor is allowed to prescribe proven treatments to a patient suffering from a preventable, manageable and curable condition is NOT something that a judge needs to determine. It exclusively is the purview of a patient and a doctor, not the law.

As a trans person myself, I need you to understand that reticence by the cis population is dangerous for the trans population. So while I can understand why it sounds extreme to you, that should only be a reason for you personally not to seek this sort of care. Not a reason for you to support roadblocks against the advice from medical professionals.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

Thanks for all the info. Can you explain how hormone treatment for children would be non-permanent? I'd think that adding or substracting hormones, like say growth hormones, would always leave traces throughout ones further life

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 hours ago

Because they temporarily block the onset of puberty, not permanently block it. Any effects are mostly reversible if the individual desires. What isn't reversible are the all too frequent side effects of untreated dysphoria: death.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Read your sources again.

The first study is about adults, not children. The pediatrics talk about banning care all together. Both address exactly not my point.

First off, there is absolutely zero surgeries being performed on minors. This is not happening. What is happening is puberty blockers and hormone replacement therapy, both of which are non-permanent

I never implied surgery. And "non-permanent" is a euphemism. Blocking puberty for years can lead to permanent problems - like infertility.

Actually, your entire comment kind of proves my point: there isn't research about how kids think and care ten years later.

As a trans person myself, I need you to understand that reticence by the cis population is dangerous for the trans population

And you need to understand, that finding out, whether a kid is part of that population is exactly the hard part.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

And you need to understand, that finding out, whether a kid is part of that population is exactly the hard part.

I don't think you fully appreciate the stigma and roadblocks associated with being trans. This isn't something people do on a whim and the data supports it. They are part of my community when they say they are.

The children that have self advocated enough to persistently ask enough for medical transition deserve the opportunity to do so. Like truly, think of the position you would be putting them in.

individuals were 60% less likely to experience depression (aOR, 0.40; 95% CI, 0.17-0.95) and 73% less likely to experience suicidality (aOR, 0.27; 95% CI, 0.11-0.65) when compared to youths who did not received gender-affirming interventions.

Blocking anyone from getting the care they say they need is reckless. It's not yours or the laws place to put up roadblocks to deny them that opportunity. It's not protecting kids but quite the opposite, it simply raises the risk of self harm.

there isn't research about how kids think and care ten years later.

The metric of 10 years is a high bar, but the data does exist.

220 youths who had accessed puberty blockers or hormones were detailed by the youth and/or their parents as part of an ongoing decade-long study of transgender youth. At a mean of 4.86 years after beginning blockers and 3.40 years after beginning hormones, they reported very high levels of satisfaction and low levels of regret; the overwhelming majority (97%) continued to access gender-affirming medical care.
When the researchers asked more about these regrets, she says, “often the regrets they were expressing had to do with [wishing] they hadn't done blockers and they'd gone straight to hormones, or they maybe had a negative side effect related to the blockers.” For instance, having an implant that got irritated.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 13 hours ago

the cool thing is: research is being done and doctors and medical boards have the same concerns as you and are way smarter than both of us. gender affirming healthcare is treated with the same level of respect as every other healthcare field.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

I feel like gender working should encompass figuring out if they do wish to transition and look at the reasons why one might be feeling that way, I always assumed it did, did it not?

To me, having no kind of care at all for trans people is just making it so that they can't get all of the best/accurate information that they need to figure out who they truly are. Which is shite. Everyone deserves that chance regardless of age.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 6 hours ago (2 children)

I feel like you misunderstood my point. Maybe on purpose, like apparently is tradition in these fields.

I never even implied "no care", I'm talking about puberty blockers and hormone treatment. These are irreversible changes. And without knowing, who they "truly are" you can't know, whether hormones are the right way to go. Damaging a trans kid by not treating is shite, but damaging a cis kid by treating it is also shite. And a doctor basically has to decide which of these risks to take - which is hard without proper data.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 hours ago

If you read their reply again you would see that the effects of puberty blockers are mostly reversible.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

I didn't misinterpret what you said, I was extending from it and asking a question about the topic at the same time. I don't actually know what "gender affirming care" consists of, Hence my comment.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (2 children)

This law bars puberty blockers and his reasoning was based on reassingment surgery being a permanent choice.

Fuck this clown.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

They genuinely don’t care what gender affirming care even is. I’ve seen so many conservatives wailing about surgery on kids, when 99% of gender care is using the right name and pronouns plus hormone blockers. Like fuck, I wish they were just handing out surgeries! I’d really love a phalloplasty, but my insurance excludes any gender confirmation surgery for adults!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

I think it's because the term 'gender affirming care' is explicitly chosen to be able to include surgery. If it's 99% about reversible hormone treatment, maybe that needs to be decoupled in order to make it more acceptable to the public

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 hours ago

The problem is, trans people are very vocal about this, people don’t want to listen! I see so many comments about chopping dicks off - that’s not even how bottom surgery works.

Trying to “decouple” does nothing, because these people are going to be deliberately disingenuous. Notice how all often the news headline is “judge bans sex change surgery for youth” - it’s a lie, and it’s on purpose.

The reality is that gender affirming care is mostly hormones. Bottom surgery is prohibitively expensive and rarely covered by insurance. Rarely I’ve heard of teens having breast reductions, but it’s also 100% legal and accepted to get a cisgender 16 year old a breast enhancement.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 14 hours ago

Wonder how many of those who oppose gender affirming surgery still support circumcision.

[–] [email protected] 33 points 14 hours ago

Oh man that reminds me when my friends and I would sneak off after gym and go around behind the basketball courts to affirm our gender. Good times, good times.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 14 hours ago

No more testosterone and bonner pills for the boomers.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)

It's like they try really hard to miss the point of pretty much anything and everything. The analogy makes zero fucking sense. It's always just a bunch of twisting words and ideas to suit their backwards ass views.