Commit a crime against others, pardon crimes against friends, dissolve criminal investigation of self.
Totally normal first-day agenda for a supposedly democratic country.
this post was submitted on 10 Nov 2024
274 points (98.6% liked)
politics
19104 readers
3373 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Yeah, we know. I am particularly interested in seeing if he will go the extra mile and try the self-pardon, though. If he does that, and the courts uphold it, then we know we've officially crossed the line to dictatorship.
If he doesn't, it will only be because people tell him the courts won't back him on that.
OTOH, there is always the tiny, tiny chance that the self-pardon is a step too far, and convince Republicans to finally impeach his ass.
There is no way a self pardon will be the line too far. Democrats expect it and the Republican electorate would cheer him on.
If he crosses a line it will be fucking with other Republican's money.
... then we know we've officially crossed the line to dictatorship.
We already know that.
Don't be so sure. It is well documented that the Founders felt that no person should be their own judge. But, more importantly, letting the President self-pardon gives that person an enormous advantage that the other branches can't put in check. It subordinates the other branches.
Congress and the courts will, of course, go along with Trump's priorities. But will they go along with diminishing their own power? Recall that even with the immunity decision, the courts left to themselves what is covered under that, so still kept some power in all that.
SCOTUS: Hold my beer
Pardons are an official act.
But a self-pardon can be argued to contradict other parts of the Constitution. It definitely is contrary to the founder's intent.
Pretty sure absolute criminal immunity for the president would be as well.
and convince the Republicans to finally impeach his ass.
Haha, good one.
let's hope the dems get the house and a supermajority in the senate in the midterms (they won't)
Right? Dude sends a crowd of rowdies into the Capitol building to hang the vice president for not lying but, self-pardoning is too far
Plan B or maybe it is plan A is do a money grab, hand over the presidency to Vance, and have Vance do all the pardons, and he walks free.
That would require Trump to trust Vance. The absolute split second that Trump is out of power, everyone will turn on him. There's no such thing as loyalty, just self interest.
Let's all meet back here in a year and see how it all played out.
kinda makes me wish that !RemindMe bot was a thing here.
I suspect he doesn't pardon himself day-1. No matter how he leaves office, there will be warning (or he'll be dead). He'll pardon himself as late as possible so he can tell people that he hasn't (yet). There's zero benefit to doing it early.
That said, he's really fucking stupid, so I'm tired of predicting what he'll do.
lol the Rs will never impeach dear leader man
Does he need to yet?
It's not like he can be impeached and most of the cases will pause by default as he's a sitting president. If any don't he'll have a tame Attorney General to kill them for him. State level charges could have a theoretical shot, but what state will take that fight?
The window to hold him accountable was 2020-2024 and the people responsible dropped the ball, sometimes with obvious intention, sometimes from naivité or incompetence
The problem as usual is that the Democrats bring Debate Club weapons to a knife fight
He did say in a recent interview that he would not pardon himself so we know he will do that on day one for sure. I am going to nickname him Mr. Opposite since I won't acknowledge him as an actual president.
Trump pardoning more violent criminals, what a fucking surprise
pardon Jan 6 rioters
Any that, ladies and gentlemen, is the nascent core of the American Sturmabteilung.
I really fucking don't think he'll pardon any of these guys. That would mean he cares for poor people
I’m not sure you understand the full power of the Nationalist Christian movement. It’s not about pardoning the poors. It’s about creating a paramilitary force with fanatical loyally to him, and him alone. He’ll be viewed by them as a savior/messiah even more than he already is by those people specifically. He will be seen as the Chosen One by those people, because he specifically saved them from “unjust imprisonment and political persecution” (for the record, it’s fully justified prosecution, because they fucking rioted and broke into the capital, trying to stop a peaceful fucking transfer of power). This is just a new and horrifyingly fascinating evolution of the große Lüge: continue to reframe an event by pardon people for crimes they actually committed that you’ve consistently told everyone aren’t crimes because you wanted those crimes to succeed.
Yep, it’s to let everyone know that you can commit any kind of violence as long as you’re wearing a red hat and the fuhrer will pardon you.
because they fucking rioted and broke into the capital
Agreed with everything you said here, except they planned this. Riots tend to be spontaneous. This was plotted and schemed for months.
Word to the wise, If you have a public social media profile, and had a hand in identifying J6 videos, wipe your social media presence now, and delete your profiles, and go the Avatar route
So make 7 huge sequels in a franchise nobody already cared about after the first one? How would that help
January Sixth Two: January Seventh
Avatar?
"But mah cheap eggs and bacon!" - every dingaling that voted based on "inflation".
I just want to point out this is Charles F. Darwin speaking, folks
Not that he should, but it'd be a power move if Biden immediately pardoned everyone involved in the attempted assassinations against Trump. Send a message.
Edit: I want to be super clear that I'm not advocating for this. Once that door is opened, there's no closing it again, and it'd be basically the worst possible outcome of all of this. It was in jest. Do not actually support this.
No, the power move would be to do something unspeakably drastic with respect to Trump's physical safety, then pardon himself afterwards. Challenge Congress to fix the loophole that the Courts established.
The world feels like: Democrats are the cops, the DNC is the FBI, Trump is Hans Gruber, Bernie Sanders is Al Powell, America is the Christmas party (it even includes a pregnant woman in peril). We'll say Kamala Harris is Holly Gennero, Joe Biden is Mr. Takagi, protest voters are Ellis, and Gen Z is Argyle. Richard Thornburg has failed us, the power's been cut, and the hostages are on the roof. But we don't have a John MacClane. I don't know what drastic measure needs to be taken. But it would be really great if we could keep the burglars-cum-terrorists from blowing us to smithereens and making off with the loot.
It will be interesting to see this play out.
If he pardons himself, it becomes an instant admission of guilt, which means that he is brazenly certifying that he has committed high crimes and misdemeanors.
We also don’t know if it is legal for the executive to pardon themselves. I don’t think it’s ever happened. Ford or Johnson pardoned Nixon, but I think that pardon was given before any trials had started.
He can’t pardon himself from the state felonies he has already been found guilty of.
As far as deportations, (and expulsions) Biden’s policy on immigration seems like a carry over from the first trump administration. In the last two years Biden has deported more folks than trumps highest numbers.