Thank you for this community. Back when I first joined Lemmy I missed niche communities. Today I found CunkPosting and I feel complete.
this post was submitted on 25 Oct 2024
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And every time you add cream to a carbonara, you can count on people from the country that invented fascism to complain about cultural purity.
Oddly enough, they’re also the country that invented adding cream to carbonara.
That's the hilarious part. Italy is not freaking singular place. It's like saying you're doing some regional dish wrong from the US when you live 3 states away from where that regional dish was created.
I've seen one Italian person correct another Italian person on how they weren't making the sauce "traditionally". Turns out both of them were making it it the traditional way to where they live.
Then the original person that was whining claimed that there's was the right way because the original bolognese sauce was invented in Bologna.
They can't even agree that there's going to be internal variations on a regional dish.
What about the entire Rome thing?
They covered it: slave economy, crony merchantislism, private armies and sections of the government, a "private and public partnership" and an untouchable ruling class and a master race (roman citizens).
Its not a coincidence that both facsism and City-state sized capitalism were all founded in Italy.
Greece pioneered a lot of that.
Well, if we take away from Rome the things they stole from Greece, there won't be anything left.
More seriously though, I mean to the scale that they did and enforcing it on such a large area of the world for so long providing the cultural space for those to develop but I agree, you're right to mention that.
Not you, I don't know anything about you, but its funny that ill usually see people being unhappy about the origin of capitalism part but none, not one of those who don't like it want to know the origins of capitalism. People who are anti capitalist are often curious but the boot licking lot aren't remotely interested.
Which, to me, says it all really.
In history, first entrepreneurs were christians.. Christianity if not started capitalism, facilitated its development.
Things like "you gotta marry and have kids", gender inequality, are all principles that go hand in hand in capitalism.
Fascism was literally inspired from Ancient Rome.
How dare you link spaghetti with fascism?
Have you ever shared a kitchen with an italian?
It's a good thing for the British people that the cameras were rolling
Well...
Fasces (/ˈfæsiːz/ FASS-eez, Latin: [ˈfaskeːs]; a plurale tantum, from the Latin word fascis, meaning 'bundle'; Italian: fascio littorio) is a bound bundle of wooden rods, often but not always including an axe
Sounds like a bound bundle of spaghetti with an axe in the middle would be awfully close to a fasces
Pasta is just messing up Asian noodles and making it their national identity.
Italians taking noodles from Asia and tomatoes from South America to make their new national identity
That's a myth. There have been proto-pasta back in Etruscan days.
Sort of. The proto-pasta was either a sort of flatbread ravioli, or there was a dish that was kind of similar to lasagna.
There was nothing like noodles until they came along the silk road from China. Which took something like 2000 years.
technically the origins of fascism trace back to the us jim crow laws wasnt it?
Some inspiration, but only incidentally. Fascism was really Italians wanting to be Romans again. This is why most of the key ideas of Fascism were written out in Latin, or used Latin terms.
Make Rome Great Again
i don't think its that incidental when goebbels himself said nazism was modeled after it.
Nazism is a form of Fascism, but Fascism is not Nazism.
Italy fell to Fascism a full decade before Germany did.
some of the jim crow laws were into effect in the late 1800s
Yes, but the Italians didn't care about that, because they based Fascism (which they invented) on Roman laws, particularly the Empire period.
and then nazis did the same, inspired by these laws.
Again, the Italians invented Fascism and it had nothing to do with America.
Italian Fascism was rooted in Italian Nationalism, which borrowed heavily from their ideas about the Roman Empire.
The Nazis didn't even exist when Italian Fascism was developing, because it was happening during WW1.
After WW1, some Germans were reeling from the loss of the war and latched onto this new hyper nationalist idea that the Italians had invented.
Only after Mussolini seized power in 1922, did Hitler come into the picture. He tried his Beer Hall Putsch in 1923.
It's important to note that in 1923, the Nazis still didn't have a coherent platform beyond hyper nationalism, and even that was shaky because Germany hadn't actually existed for all that long.
After the Beer Hall Putsch, Hitler went on trial and became a national figure in Germany. The face of the Nazi movement. And as such, he needed a coherent set of ideals and shit. Which he came up with in prison. Well, a swanky castle prison with all his friends and comfortable rooms and shit.
Anyway, it was during the 5-year prison sentence where Hitler wrote Mein Kampf, and finally had a coherent sounding ideology for the Nazi movement.
A full decade after the Italians had theirs.
Now, Hitler was also obsessed with the books of Karl May, who was a young adult fiction writer in Germany. May wrote books centered on the American West, even though he had never actually been to America, and didn't speak English.
That's where America finally comes in to things.
So when Hitler finally rose to power in 1933, he could then look at what America was doing to crib some laws. But even then, the Nuremberg laws were more inspired from Russian laws around Jews than what was going on in America.
Oh yeah, the Russians really hated Jews. You couldn't be a 1900s antisemite without bowing to the superior hatred shown by the Russians, particularly under the Tsars. But that's an entirely different history lesson.