Well, ick.
I knew Stallman had some uh, wrong, opinions on some of that, but I think I need a shower now.
this post was submitted on 14 Oct 2024
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Damning, but nothing that hasn’t already been talked about for a while now. Just formalizing the review. He’s a creep who did some cool things with software. It’s time to move on and leave him behind.
did some cool things with software
LOL what an understatement
Terry Davis
Went to look him up and the Wiki link showed as already visited. Yeah, I remember reading about this guy. Sad what mental health issues can do to people. Said the guy with mental health issues, fortunately less severe.
You might want to remember that he has done more to advance open source software than perhaps any other person on this planet. You don't get to take away someone's achievements just because you don't like them...
I don't see anyone trying to take away his achievement. The report and most commenters even recognize his contribution.
Also this goes more deeply than "not liking them", he has some morally reprehensible views. I admit I haven't read the whole report, but I have seen some of the things it touches on in the past and it's pretty damning.
Stallman earned his position of influence as a voting board member through his software-related achievements, not his sexual attitudes. Removing him for the latter absolutely WOULD take away from those achievements. Paying lip service in the report doesn't change that. In another era when homosexuality was illegal, Alan Turing was removed from his position in British intelligence because of being gay. The two situations aren't identical, but they don't have to be. The point is that they both earned their positions, and taking away what they earned because of unrelated moral disapproval is wrong. This isn't a defense of any of Stallman's attitudes - I'm saying no such defense is necessary or relevant.
I think, this is what contemporary cancel culture usually tries to do.
I also think, that this is wrong on most occasions. Maybe sometimes possible damage warrants cancelling someone, I don't know
I agree. Uproars like this reflect an irrational fear that rewarding someone for one reason also rewards everything else about them, including stuff we don't approve of. We see a ton of crowd-sourced demonization nowadays. Yes, you cured cancer but you also liked the wrong tweets, so no Nobel Prize for you, spawn of Satan.
I gave him credit for that while also saying we shouldn't platform him or give him attention until and unless he recants and / or apologizes. Just like the report says.
recants and / or apologizes
Just curious what, precisely, you would expect him to recant or apologise for?
See the report and take your pick.
From what? I'm not sure what in the report you think needs apologising for. Did you actually read the report? Is there a sentence you can quote and say "he needs to apologise for this"?
I believe you're arguing in bad faith because the report makes it obvious what objectionable statements were made. Bye!
the report makes it obvious what objectionable statements were made
I disagree. The report claims there are disagreeable statements but when you actually look at the quotes of what Stallman said, they don't match the claims or conclusions of the report.
This is why I'm asking if you can actually quote something Stallman said.
I believe you're arguing in bad faith
I don't think you've actually read the report.
I skimmed the first handful of alleged harmful statements on two topics before deciding I wouldn't benefit from reading the whole thing.
done more to advance open source software
Just FYI, penned by Stallman himself no less: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.en.html
when he threatened suicide if Betsy did not agree to date him
I skipped to the section on allegations of misconduct and stopped reading here. They just quoted Stallman saying he didn’t threaten suicide and then the (nameless, cowardly) authors immediately say “he threatened suicide”. Despicable. There is nobody to back up Betsy’s side. There’s no response from Betsy to Stallman’s recent comments on the incident. And yet this is the first “corroborated” example they come out with.
This site is another insidious hit piece full of holes. I pity the authors that they’re so twisted and power-hungry in their relentless attacking of a man who has clearly suffered for having a different mind to most and yet also contributed so much. Much more, I would guess, than these snakes will ever contribute.
This is not the first time I find people attacking Stallman without much evidence or by taking his words out of context. But his views as expressed by himself on his site are also pretty extreme, and I don't find those good.
It would be better to discern allegations and facts, still.
his views as expressed by himself on his site are also pretty extreme, and I don't find those good
I've always found Stallman's views to be impeccably rational. To me, the extremity is instead in the irrationality of those who find Stallman's views extreme. In general, people aren't rational and find it difficult to cope when they come across a person who is. I think this is why so many people find Stallman's notes distasteful.
Irrationality is also why I find this report to be so ugly: it's full of non sequiturs. It's a product of irrational, seemingly damaged minds.
Drew DeVault tried to be anonymous lol:
https://crt.sh/?q=.drewdevault.com
https://web.archive.org/web/20240929110752/https://rms-draft-84eb252.drewdevault.com/
(found on /g/)
Edit: LMAO, he wrote this on hn:
I've read most of the report and it's got a lot more than "last time". Speaking as someone who has done a lot of my own research on Stallman's bullshit, the depth of this report is astonishing. The allegations it makes regarding the conduct of the rest of the FSF is particularly alarming.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41837782#41838124
Edit 2: Even more evidence
We already knew it was from mastoclowns, for mastoclowns.
The details and which "e-celebs" are involved is immaterial.
No one relevant (or merely sane) cared, cares, or will ever care about that scene's rage-circlejerk choice of the day.
Good thing there is no long list of signatories in this one. I had to double-check the open letter when it came out to make sure no one fake-included me there.
Hope the nu crowd are winning their arguments hard.. in their own echo chambers. Because no one else is going to even feel their presence outside of them.