this post was submitted on 22 Sep 2024
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Exclusive: US to propose ban on Chinese software, hardware in connected vehicles, sources say (www.reuters.com)
submitted 2 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
39 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

WASHINGTON, Sept 21 (Reuters) - The U.S. Commerce Department is expected on Monday to propose prohibiting Chinese software and hardware in connected and autonomous vehicles on American roads due to national security concerns, two sources told Reuters.

The Biden administration has raised serious concerns about the collection of data by Chinese companies on U.S. drivers and infrastructure as well as the potential foreign manipulation of vehicles connected to the internet and navigation systems.

The proposed regulation would ban the import and sale of vehicles from China with key communications or automated driving system software or hardware, said the two sources, who declined to be identified because the decision had not been publicly disclosed.

The move is a significant escalation in the United States' ongoing restrictions on Chinese vehicles, software and components. Last week, the Biden administration locked in steep tariff hikes on Chinese imports, including a 100% duty on electric vehicles as well as new hikes on EV batteries and key minerals.

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[–] [email protected] 81 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Did we all forget about the study from Mozilla on vehicle data collection?

The fact of the matter is that every single new connected product is collecting data on anyone who uses it. Once the data is collected, it's sold. Once it's on the market, that data is used by every country. China will eventually get data on US drivers regardless of what make they drive, the US government just wants first dibs.
I'm not one of those people who think that China and Russia are some kind of utopic ideal we should all be working towards. The US government is also not a shining beacon of ethics.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, obviously it's not the point, but I would love a ban on car data collection instead.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Given how much lobbying power the American automotive industry has, I don't think that will ever happen.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

It's weird how they charge you $40k for a car, which almost every American needs just to survive, sell your data in addition to that, and still need to be bailed out by the taxpayer regularly.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I want them to write an actual KOSA bill that would introduce privacy laws and would prevent this stuff. But nah it's more like Kill Online Safety Act and do nothing about the real problems.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago

They probably would if they weren't being payed by lobby groups not to. Or at least one would hope they would.

[–] [email protected] 43 points 2 months ago

I wish they'd propose a mandate on having the option for disconnected vehicles sold in the US, instead. Privacy-conscious people should not have to resort to finding and disconnecting antennas to reclaim privacy from sketchy data collection. I get that China is the big bad wolf in this discussion, but American companies are just as bad with the data hoarding and erosion of privacy.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

What about israeli tech tho? That's the only civilian tech that I've seen used in terrorist attacks.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

9/11 ring a bell?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Is a commercial airliner really civilian?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

What else would it be?

[–] [email protected] 28 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Effectively just a ban on Chinese EV's to protect American car companies that can't keep up with them.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

Id be fine with it if they repeal the chicken tax

[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 months ago (3 children)

I'm opposed to connected vehicles

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago

No! You don't understand. It's all about the scary CPC spying on you. Wholesome American, European, and Japanese corporations spying on you would never misuse that information.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

That's not even on the table. The only thing Americans care about is the potential for Chinese surveillance. The potential for American surveillance and corporate surveillance (particularly for insurance companies) is considered a huge windfall that they'll fight to continue.

Hell, I can see a future in which your car won't even start without an internet connection.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

I'm opposed to vehicles

[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 months ago

Critical support for the US becoming more insular and cutting itself off from high end technology.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Nice to know Chinese EVs will be the choice for privacy-minded individuals in the US soon. Being cheaper than western brands is a nice big fat cherry on top.

[–] muhyb 2 points 2 months ago

I think that's nice as long as people can jailbreak them.

[–] [email protected] -5 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I'm pretty sure anyone who believes that is quite misguided. tell me next that xiaomi phones and robot vacuums are privacy minded. we should also shift to wechat, right?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Unironically yes, those are less likely to siphon your data to US letters agencies, and those are the ones you should be worried about, not China.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 months ago

oh you absolutely have to be worried about china. I don't care specifically about anyone, and so I don't care specifically about the US. Everyone having this much access is dangerous

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

What's more dangerous for a US citizen? US companies forwarding info to local police (as facebook and google have and continue to do?), or another country with no such power doing that?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I'm not a US citizen, neither of them are safe in any amount. Speaking of that, my country has ever increasing chinese influence, imported by our most corrupt goverment ever, along with loans that we will pay for decades, if not for longer. Chinese surveillance tech is appearing everywhere, like hundres of hikvision cameras.

I don't think I'm a minority here.

I also don't want to buy a Tesla ever, neither travel in one, and I'm pretty confident with today's climate that I won't ever have a car.
I dont want to travel to the US, but to china even less so.
The wrongdoings of the US does not make china any better of an option.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The prohibitions in question would include vehicles with certain bluetooth, satellite and wireless features as well as highly autonomous vehicles that could operate without a driver behind the wheel.

Chinese vehicles sold in the US would have the same internet connectivity as a base 2007 Honda Civic. Surveillance by the Chinese would be practically impossible with those limitations. You know who gets a pass on installing everything from internet connected cabin-facing cameras, accelerometers, microphones, and GPS tracking? US-based auto manufacturers!

That's right, they can and will take all the data they have about you and sell them to data brokers. Enjoy paying a higher insurance premium because you braked too hard one time. Did your shiny new GM's shitty drivetrain give out on you because their engineering is garbage and you want to claim the warranty for repairs? Too bad, you accelerated a little too hard that one time to get out of the way of a speeding truck and now they claim it was your bad driving that broke it.

I get you hate the CCP, most of us do (except the tankies here but they're a special case) but until we rein in the lazy and corrupt domestic vehicle industry it's gonna be a hard fight to get rid of Chinese vehicles encroaching on the market even with 100% tariffs.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

Chinese vehicles sold in the US would have the same internet connectivity as a base 2007 Honda Civic. Surveillance by the Chinese would be practically impossible with those limitations.

yeah sure, we all know the us government blocks trackers of the bloatware built into chinese smartphones, chinese network routers, and all other things. Except they don't.

Chinese vehicles sold in the US would have the same internet connectivity as a base 2007 Honda Civic.

I would even consider buying them, then. Honestly. It's increasingly hard to find such cars.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 months ago

the optimal approach would be to embrace public transport and let cars go the way of carthorses.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago

This probably can’t be great news for Chinese-owned Volvo.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago

How would that even work? There is so much open source software in cars where you have no idea where the programmer is from. Best example https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/XZ_Utils_backdoor

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

How about we ban software in cars in general, beyond basic engine control.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

There's plenty of useful software in cars: collision avoidance systems, automatic braking systems, pedestrian detection systems, etc. Personally I love android auto / carplay for my audio books for my commute.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago

They definitely got their priorities set straight.

[–] [email protected] -5 points 2 months ago (2 children)

This has a fair reason. If war were to break out the Chinese government could, hypothetically, hijack, kill, or break all their cars in the country.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

then don't go to war with china. people talk like the chinese would go attacking for no reason.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

They would make all their EV's explode with their supply chain implanted plastic explosives!