I generally trust Proton products.
As a side note, you should never use any non e2e encrypted password manager.
this post was submitted on 16 Aug 2023
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As a rule of thumb, do not put all your eggs into one basket. No software is infallible and vulnerabilities can be uncovered and exploited in both open and closed sourced applications.
That’s being said, as long as you don’t store all information necessary for a successful login in your password manager, you should be fine.
So storing credentials for your bank account is fine, as long as it is also protected by MFA and you do not use the same password manager for handling that.
You can store PIN codes from your debit cards in the password manager as long as you do not store card number / expiration / CVV2 there too.
Personally, I keep passwords in a password manager, MFA tokens in a separate authenticator, MFA recovery codes go to FIPS 140-2 certified encrypted USB sticks (3 separate copies). I do store debit card PIN codes in my password manager, but only alongside the last 4 digits of the card number.
This. Saving 2FA codes in password managers is one of the dumbest trends in security for sure. Like, ok, take the 2 out of 2FA, great job T_T
This is also largely based on threat model as something is better than nothing. I don't believe the average person is going to, much less successfully, implement full layered security.
If more people could just:
- Use long passphrases
- Never reuse passwords for more than one service
- Use an encrypted password manager
- Enable 2FA (Preferability via app not SMS)
It would solve a large majority of the issues. It's important to note that most stolen logins are actually from data breaches and malware. Before Proton Pass I stored everything in KeePass, we're talking many years. I have yet to ever have unauthorized activity or login on any of my accounts, I've even been lucky not to show up on any data breaches.
Sure, I got a "FIPS 140-2 certified encrypted USB" which really can just be done with VeraCrypt for FREE (Supply Chain Prevention), used for archive backups, but otherwise just not clicking on links in random emails or visiting sketchy websites.
I agree with you on most of the points. Some security is better than nothing. More security is better than less, layers and all.
Regarding data breaches and malware, and threat models in general. We should not forget phishing too. People voluntarily entering their credentials on a website masquerading as their bank etc.
With all of that, having your credentials split over multiple applications and devices actually saves you from an endpoint compromise and evil maid attacks, at least in a sense of limiting the fallout.
Regarding VeraCrypt and “FREE”. While it is, again, better than nothing, VeraCrypt is fiddly, not always works consistently on all operating systems (I look at you, MacOS), and is susceptible to key logging. I prefer actual certified hardware with physical keypads instead. It is not free and has its own downsides, but it is just something I find more appealing.
that are good suggestions. my bank accounts all require two steps authentications, with the second one being mostly auth via mobile app, so that part is enforced and always keeps the account secured better.
I do have one concern with the Proton account itself, as you wrote "no all eggs in one basket" rule of thumb. With the Pass, I have the 2FA integrated together with passwords (not for bank accounts) - a little risk in here with a gain on convenience.
Though I certainly do not store my Proton password in it, keeping it memorable and more than 40 characters long makes me feel safe. Im not sure what 2FA app to use for the Proton tho, would you recommend anything? I cannot use a physical key, as my devices have different USB connectors and I cannot have a one key for all.
I personally use Aegis for Android (https://getaegis.app/) and FreeOTP for iOS (https://apps.apple.com/us/app/freeotp-authenticator/id872559395) both open source.
YubiKey makes several models for physical keys but I could understand not wanting it. I use NFC for my mobile device and USB-C on my computers.
that are two separate keys? or that's one key that has USB + NFC on it? cause that would be kinda good, as all my devices have USB except for the iPhone, but it has NFC so that would be sufficient enough
It's one key with NFC for mobile devices plus a port of your choice. I'd check out there main site for this model, https://www.yubico.com/product/yubikey-5-series/yubikey-5c-nfc/
It is kinda pricey but they work well and they are well built, very easy for setup and use. I've almost always had better luck finding it a bit cheaper on Amazon.
ok, I see some on my country sites with a reasonable price. thanks for the tips! if you don't mind I would like to ask one more question in regards to the keys.
How does they work in pairs? Like, I see an auction where I can buy one key separately, but to dont get locked out of account I would rather want to buy two. Should I look for auction with bundle of two? or I can set up two separate keys to be used for the same authorizaion?
Yes, it is recommended to purchase 2. It literally makes them identical in case you lose your primary. 1 in a safe and 1 on your key ring kinda thing.
Some websites may not allow recovery if you lose your key, so yes a 2nd one is useful if possible. And yes, you would be able to use both interchangeably.
thanks for your help! gotta get them then for my Proton account to keep it safe and handle all the other auths with passwords and TOTPs I guess.
For MFA apps, Google Authenticator seems to be the norm.
I personally use OTPAuth with sync disabled and regular backups. Mostly because it is easier to organise and back up.
Regarding hardware security keys as part of MFA, you can either get yourself dual USB-C / Lightning or USB-C / USB-A keys from Yubikey. Then just buy a USB-A to USB-C dongle (or vice versa) and keep it on your key chain. That’s mostly what I do, not ideal but does the job.
I also use OnlyKey for some passwords, especially encryption passphrases on some servers and laptops. I usually need to enter them on boot, and it just takes too long to do that manually and I’m lazy.
It‘s e2ee and open source, so I‘d be not concerned regarding Proton‘s side.
Keep your Account safe, your passwords long and complex and use 2FA sort of things and you should be fine, I‘d say
It all depends on your personal balance of risk vs convenience.
Your card details should be secure provided you follow standard security practices. So if you tire of manually inputting them all the time then go ahead.
If there ever is a vulnerability disclosed you can cancel your cards through your provider and have them re-issued. Finally, if you ever come across fraudulent purchases you can dispute them.
that is a true concern. however in this case I have a good feature provided by my bank provider, where I can create a virtual-only card, to which I send a fixed balance amount, like $100 and that is all that card have - even tho my account may be at $1000. so given this and the e2e encryption, I guess its probably safe to store - at least the virtual cards
I have no question on it's security, I've used their services for years and never had any issues. It's well thought out, designed and there is a full article on their website about the security of pass in particular.
Just be sure to use settings such as setting a pin to access the app/extension, not a bad idea to consider device security as well based on your threat model.