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Austrian leader backs far-right idea of enshrining cash in constitution (www.euractiv.com)

submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

33 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Austria’s conservative Chancellor Karl Nehammer wants the right to use cash enshrined in the constitution, he told Austrian media in remarks published on Friday (4 August), an idea the far-right Freedom Party has been pushing for years.

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The far anything can go screw itself, but we definitely need to hold on to physical currency.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Exactly. I was in Sweden recently and it's opressive how difficult it is to use cash. For everything it's only card or apps, I didn't even bother to get any local cash. But I had a few SEK from years ago and I couldn't use them.

In Portugal is not on the constitution but it's law, a business cannot force the client to pay by other means if the client has enough cash to make the payment for payments under 3000€ (above this you actually can't pay cash by the same law :P).

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)

What's wrong with the idea?

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It's a non-issue meant to deflect from real problems. It's also summer, so there's nothing going on and the news are blowing everything out of proportion.
Analysis of the whole thing (in German):
https://www.derstandard.de/story/3000000181809/nehammer-findet-keinen-verbuendeten-fuer-bargeld-vorstoss

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There is a lot going on in Austria. It's just that it is climate change related floodings, and far-right people don't like that kind of debate.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

It's really disgusting how even the media covered it for only a week and then didnt mention it again. I guess the Ahrtal only became such a big thing in Germany because of the absence of warnings and resulting deaths.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The intention.

Cash has many benefits over cards, like independence from electricity, privacy, accessibility and you don’t have to worry about wether or not a store accepts your cash (at least if you ignore currency meddling).

But the far right does not care about those things. They support the idea because of some NWO conspiracy bs and the law they would propose will probably have some specific details to reflect that, even if it’s just by ambiguity.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

The ÖVP has adopted the FPÖ's (far right's) talking point but not the specific law AFAIK. Also, they would probably only pass the law with agreement from their green coalition partners. It might be possible for them to cooperate with the FPÖ in the Nationalrat to pass the FPÖ's idea of the law, but that is extremely uncommon and would be very unpopular with the Greens. This is really only an issue for the next election in about one year.

[+] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

[deleted]

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

This card-only thing is already happening in some places and it's frustrating. For one, you tend to find out after you're done shopping or while your order is already being prepared, so you're being put on the spot. For two, for the store, it makes sense to go cash-free as long as they lose fewer customer payments than they save on cash-handling — but for those few customers who are caught by this, and who may be unbanked or have an incompatible card or high card fees or are just privacy-minded, it becomes harder/impossible to buy stuff at all.

[+] [email protected] -7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

If you're unbanked, that is a you problem. Not a problem that society has to succumb to.
I want to live in a country that isn't 50 years behind every other just because some backwards hillbilly decides that "the banks shan't know what i spend my paycheck on".
If you're that concerned, stop using the Internet. Full stop.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

If you’re unbanked, that is a you problem.

Refugees and poor people don't exist. I forgot. (I live near a refugee facility and bus drivers here don't accept cash anymore, while most of the ticketing machines have been removed from the bus stops ... fun. Essentially people who come here are almost forced into riding the bus without a ticket, at least a couple of times. In Germany, that is a criminal offense and can lead to extradition.)

the banks shan’t know what i spend my paycheck on

They legitimately shouldn't. And neither should my supermarket/drug store be able to collect all my receipts to find out whether I am sick or pregnant.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Poor people? Since when can a poor person not get a bank account?
And since when can a refugee not pay by card?

And neither should my supermarket/drug store be able to collect all my receipts to find out whether I am sick or pregnant.

Go complain to the taxman lol. no, complain to the cashier, that the cashier has to forget what you bought immediately after. Delusional.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I can't say much for Europe, but in America, some immigrants tend to not have IDs, birth certificates or other important documents needed to open a bank account. Other people tend to be far away from a bank, especially in poorer areas. Banks tend to serve the rich, and don't see as much profit operating for the poor.

I'll bet that some of the same things are true in Europe

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Poor people? Since when can a poor person not get a bank account?

Have you considered that some people don't have their life all in order? May have a drug issue?

And since when can a refugee not pay by card?

The issue is that most arrive in the EU without an EU bank account. So, yeah, the first few weeks or months, they will not have a bank account.

[+] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

[deleted]

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

So, one, with most cryptocurrencies you're not anonymous and every transaction is on a blockchain. Buying drugs with those may bite you later, depending on whether you develop any kind of ambition to be someone who's interesting enough to investigate. Two, this comment is not about being entitled to a bank account but about having enough order in your life to handle opening/using an accoutlnt.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And what makes you think that the people youre arguing for, which are btw a tiny minority that is unmeasurable, are better with cash?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

And what makes you think that the people youre arguing for [...] are better with cash?

Cashless systems right now are privatized systems that are set up to be more exclusionary than cash. (I admit, there are niches where they do help inclusion, such as for blind people, but still.)

And this shows in really simple examples: I can give a child cash and tell them to get ice-cream without compromising my bank account and without the child needing to know any of my secrets or needing to have a bank account. I can give a homeless person cash without telling them my name or bank account and without them needing a bank account.

If there were a state-provided privacy-first cashless system that worked for everyone age 5+ which didn't need to refinance itself on the back people going into personal debt, I'd be mostly for it. The only thing missing then would be the intuitive spending control you get from using physical money but maybe there's a solution for that.

But right now, there are few giant multinationals plus local banks who make a lot of money on the current system and they will do everything to prevent this kind of idea for obvious reasons.

which are btw a tiny minority that is unmeasurable

I am pretty sure you can find out how many people there are who are excluded by current cashless systems, if you try.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Have you considered that some people don’t have their life all in order? May have a drug issue?

Yes, i have also considered that i am vegan and stores can still sell meat. Nonissue. Or do you also argue against and ID System?

The issue is that most arrive in the EU without an EU bank account.

When i go to the US i can pay with my german mastercard in every store everywhere.
This is an issue for EU countries to get over, not me.

Cash and crypto have more bad than good sides.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Have you considered that some people don’t have their life all in order? May have a drug issue?

Yes, i have also considered that i am vegan and stores can still sell meat. Nonissue.

So, you're saying it's great to be discriminated against?!

I would go about this the other way: Being vegan is a societal good (because it means you're likelier to stay healthy; it means less resource usage; yadda). Hence, society/the state should make it as easy as possible to be vegan. A few years ago, when mainstream stores were few vegan-friendly besides produce, being a vegan was a pain though. Now, however, you have non-vegans pick up oat milk at Aldi.

Enabling people to not be criminal is a societal good as well.

Or do you also argue against and ID System?

No. I see legitimate reasons for a country to know its inhabitants. I do object to the fact that I need to present my ID when it's not really necessary, like at a hotel though.

The issue is that most arrive in the EU without an EU bank account.

When i go to the US i can pay with my german mastercard in every store everywhere.

I realize you're not a refugee.

Cash and crypto have more bad than good sides.

Crypto is, by and large, bullshit. But what does it have to do with this discussion?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You've never had your identity stolen or you wouldn't be saying that.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Citizens should have right to privacy. Cash, monero etc are important.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

A cashless society is an obedient society. So you bet that's the future in ten years.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Not sure if smart by conservative party to take away one of the talking arguments of the far-right or a red herring to distract from actual important topics (i.e. climate change).