this post was submitted on 01 May 2024
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Technology

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[–] [email protected] 92 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (5 children)

Dude awesome. I mean you gotta hand it to them. Killing it with affordable electric cars, solar panels and now this. It’s a step in the right direction, and that’s more than you could say about UK

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I agree however there is only 1 but and that’s the fact that the labor costs are much lower in China than in the West. Still a great job by China.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 4 months ago (1 children)

That’s not so true nowadays. Skilled factory workers already make a good salary in China nowadays. Like better than any other “global south” country at least. And by cost of living, better than the US probably tbh.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago

don't need to be paying nearly as much for a skilled employee when cost of living is much lower

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago

Oi lad, shut up and eat yer coal!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago

We're putting in tones of wind power. The problem is the weird linking of electricity prices to gas prices and the fact we don't have anywhere near the energy storage capacity we need. So we end up paying wind farm operators to shut down turbines and generate less when its extra windy.

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[–] [email protected] 50 points 4 months ago (1 children)

That battery isn’t all that big…. Oh wait that’s a capitalized M!

[–] [email protected] 34 points 4 months ago (4 children)

Still doesn't really seem all that big. Some EVs have 100 KWh batteries. A container ship with the battery capacity of 500 cars doesn't sound like much.

[–] bitfucker 38 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Until you realize that the energy requirement is also different. Land transport in general is very inefficient. Ship is in fact one of the most energy efficient means of transport.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I don't disagree but every time I've seen a diesel engine on a cargo ship it was absolutely massive.

[–] bitfucker 29 points 4 months ago

Size wise, it is small relative to the ship size. Look at car engine. How many % of volume is taken up for the engine and fuel tank of car? I think it is close to 30-40%

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

194 nautical miles isn't terribly far, though. For port to port, sure. For oceanic shipping, I don't think 194 is going to cut it. I think we will probably have to do SMRs or efuels to really cut cargo ship and cruise ship emissions when crossing the Pacific or Atlantic. Though I don't know where nuclear powered shipping (in non-military applications) is in terms of progress.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 months ago

Ships are much more efficient than cars. Having said that, this wouldn't have a huge range, nor is it terribly big by container ship standards.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Add sails and solar panels and its quite a lot

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago (5 children)

Yep, and the Chevy Silverado EV manages 200kWh now. This cargo ship better be small and efficient because 250 American pickup trucks worth of battery really isn't much.

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[–] [email protected] 29 points 4 months ago (4 children)

Having seen some spicy pillows in my times… I’d hate to be onboard if any of the battery containers becomes a bouncy castle.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Using standard container sizes as battery modules is kind of genius. That way they can be swapped out when they get older and newer technology comes along, they could even be swapped between ships.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 months ago

I expect they are using LFP which doesn't do that.

Fortunately energy density is not a concern with boats.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago (4 children)

These batteries are likely far more complex in packaging, design, and thermal management that any consumer electronic cell. They'll likely "fail safely" if/when they do fail.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Good news, it’s surrounded by water! Bad news, it’s surrounded by water. 😡

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 4 months ago

360 km or 194 nautic miles is the inter-port distance.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (4 children)

Why not an electric train? There is contiguous land between the two cities, and then you don't have to carry your fuel with you or build giant batteries out of rare earth minerals, while risking run-away shorts that will surely endanger everyone on board, and ensure the cargo is lost.

Plus the distance is <300kms.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Probably because trains are limited in both weight and volume compared to ships and also less efficient. If you have this short route and know it'll need this amount of cargo shipped it likely makes sense.

This single ship can carry more containers than any train could be expected to pull, likely by at least one order of magnitude.

All in all I'd guess the advantages are roughly:

  • Reduced staff
  • reduced energy use (land based shipping is less efficient almost by default)
  • no need for infrastructure except ports (if you assume there is no train line or this shipping would move existing lines over capacity building this ship is likely cheaper or at least in line with 300km of rail)
  • simpler logistics (loading / unloading)

Disadvantages:

  • Speed (a train would likely move at 3-5x the speed)

I would also not expect the risk for catastrophic fires to be all that high. This ship has the batteries be containers. So once you've designed a container that is a large battery, you've already spent so much that a proper BMS including proper battery fire suppression as well as proper breakers/contractors are things you've built into it without even thinking about cost. The separation provided by building containers as the battery is the next line of defence if one container fails spectacularly, it also allows the batteries to be maintained on land, much cheaper than if they were part of the ship.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I expect they are using LFP which isn't fire prone.

Fortunately energy density is not nearly the concern with boats and trains as it is with cars.

And agreed, the modular batteries are a nice touch.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago (1 children)

if only we had some kind of wind powered boat technology.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago (5 children)

Well there is a reason we stopped using those.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago

If only we could get energy to trains easily and continuously.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago

I can see lots of disappointed shipping magnates going to the shops on Boxing Day to get the batteries that weren’t included in the box.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago

I don't think you could sustain an electric ship with solar panels, but I wonder if you could appreciably extend the range of this ship by adding solar panels.

Hell, if panels get cheap enough you could slap panels on top of all the battery modules. If they happen to be covered by something else, so be it.

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