this post was submitted on 24 Apr 2024
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[–] [email protected] 75 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Israel is also killing journalists, as well as aid workers, its own hostage citizens waving white flags, along with thousands of non combative Palestinians, the majority being women and children.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, they don't even mention the 100+ journalists they murdered. Not sure if Iran even has one?

[–] [email protected] 14 points 8 months ago (1 children)

other than the 834 executions last year of protesters / dissidents and general killings of protesters, here's 1 known killing of an iranian journalist.
there's also the other attempts to kill iranian journalists abroad, but fortunately they're incompetent.

[–] [email protected] 50 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Why are we giving these guys any money.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

Serious answer?

Not in any particular order:

  1. Military aid to Israel is a defacto rebate for all the stuff they buy and a subsidy for the US defense industry. A lot of US politicians are on the military industrial complex payroll or end up working for it. A lot of Americans work in related industries.
  2. Just like with Europe, pushing them to buy American weaponry, ensures their native defense industry can't become a significant competitor. (Obviously this is an issue in Europe right now, given we've been caught with a pants down because we're too reliant on the US defense industry) For example, wouldn't want the Israeli defense industry to develop their own highly capable missiles, because they might end up selling them to parties the US doesn't want to have advanced tech, eg. some Israeli companies were found to have illegally sold China cruise missiles a few years back. That kind of thing would explode if the Israelis were independent for defense.
  3. Strategically interesting to have an ally in the middle-east, especially one with an excellent (foreign) intelligence service. Giving Israel aid also ensures neighbours don't do anything stupid. A powerful military is the best deterent. A powerful conventional military, also avoids Israel going nuclear.
  4. Not the worst regime the US supports/has supported. Enemy of my enemy Real politik.
  5. AIPAC
  6. Evangelicals
  7. Outdated views of what Israel is actually like and a language barrier that has allowed Americans (and American reporters) to ignore the stuff not said in English.
[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago
  1. Israel is used to ensure continued divide and destabilization to keep the Middle East at perpetual war, making resource extraction cheaper and preventing the formation of a unified Arab block, that would have more people than the EU, be economically en par but strategically much better situated.

Note that this aspect is not exclusive to the US or EU. Russia is also quite happy with keeping the Middle East in this state. For China it remains to be seen, if they want a stable Middle East for the Belts and Roads, or if they arrange with the way it is currently.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago

Because they are on your side of the river... oh wait, they are not. They must be wearing your color of t-shirt, then.

[–] [email protected] 38 points 8 months ago

For those who missed how fun the Israel prison experience is; Israeli Channel 13 proudly reported on it

Video of Israel arresting random people in Gaza and claiming they are elite Hamas: https://files.catbox.moe/uqvfoa.mp4

Video of Israel making prisoners kneel for multiple hours a day https://files.catbox.moe/eg9xz7.mp4

Video of the Israeli prison tour featuring the real victims https://files.catbox.moe/zm7113.mp4

The dogs are used to attack prisoners. Even children. https://www.dci-palestine.org/palestinian_child_detained_without_charge_attacked_by_israeli_military_dog

" Israeli forces violated his rights, beat him, and unleashed an Israeli military dog which attacked him."

[–] [email protected] 34 points 8 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 22 points 8 months ago (2 children)

They don't have that self awareness. The indoctrination starts at birth.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

“In Judaism, the concept of the Jews as chosen people (Hebrew: הָעָם הַנִבְחַר hāʿām hanīvḥar) is the belief that the Jews as a subset, via partial descent from the ancient Israelites, are also chosen people, i.e. selected to be in a covenant with God.”

“According to Deuteronomy, when the Lord delivers the Israelites to the land, the other nations will be cast out, and "thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor show mercy unto them"

"But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire. For thou art a holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth"”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_as_the_chosen_people

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Sure except most Jews don't apply that literally.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago

I heard a saying; Many Jews don't believe in God, but they believe he gave them Israel.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 8 months ago

"Are we the baddies?"

[–] [email protected] 16 points 8 months ago

Bloody hypocrites

[–] [email protected] 7 points 8 months ago (3 children)

It's sad, but I realized a few weeks ago that if you map out the direction of Israel, the hard right vision is essentially Iran.

Setting aside the treatment of the Palestinians, Israel was once known for its cosmopolitan night life and high quality universities. Now, its seen a takeover by the militant, backwards, misogynistic theocrats. And as more and more people get angry about losing their rights, the theocrats get more and more heavy-handed in militarizing their society, both inwardly and outwardly. And as the rest of the world becomes more and more disgusted, the country is becoming more and more isolated.

I still believe in a better way: I want to see a one state solution.

People don't say this often but I actually appreciate what there is to like about Israel. There's a lot of cool people and great culture and natural splendor. Same for Palestine too. If we can just apply enough pressure and stop saying "tWo sTaTE soLuTiON! tWO sTAte SoLUtION!!" and just say "Enough. It's time you recognized that it's been one country oppressing half its population this whole time, so stop oppressing people and give everyone the same rights."

I say this because the status quo is already over. I think that it can either become modern South Africa, or Iran. Those are the two most likely paths, and I really want the first one.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago (3 children)

You can admire Israel’s natural beauty (which is just deserts really?) and still support a two state solution though

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I think a one state solution is ultimately better. Needs a heavy handed 3rd party arbitrator. But it will work out in the end.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 8 months ago

For that to happen Zionism needs to be banned and the indoctrination of children to believe that they are carrying intergenerational trauma in order to justify apartheid and genocide needs to end

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago

You don’t think deserts can be beautiful?

[–] [email protected] -5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

where'd you get that from? another "truthout" article?
only the south of israel is mainly desert.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I mean, I’ve been there. I’m aware of the geography. Not sure what the source has to do with it?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

you wrote "You can admire Israel’s natural beauty (which is just deserts really?)".
if you've been there, you're supposed to know that while the south of israel is mostly deserts, you won't find any deserts in the rest of it.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

What is your definition of “most” exactly? Because mine is “more than half,” which literally matches what I said. It’s almost 2/3rds desert.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

i wrote most of the south, not most of israel..
and you wrote "just deserts"..
the center and north don't have deserts.
there are meadows and forests. in some places there's snow in the winter.
so again, not "just deserts really". which is what you wrote.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago (2 children)

The Zionists and their supporters do not want a two state solution ever. Zionism is a fascist ideology. As such it needs the perpetual doublethink of "we are the greatest and superior to everyone else" like written in the Israel constitution as an Ethnostate for ethnic Jews while also constantly claiming "we are at the brink of extinction and need a brutal government to protect us, from all the other people".

The language, the demeanor and the actions of the mainstream Israel politics, media and culture are showing this to an extreme.

A one state solution would be the polar opposite, as it would not only rely on acknowledging that ethnic or any other supremacism is always wrong, but also the realization that not everyone is out to get you, if you stop murdering and oppressing people.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

Well the Confederate states didn't want to end slavery, and South Africa's ruling elites didn't want to get rid of apartheid.

This is what I want, and I'm going to keep saying that the world should compel them to accept it.

[–] [email protected] -5 points 8 months ago (2 children)

how do you explain rabin and the oslo accords then?
and all the israelis who voted for parties that support the 2 state solution?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Rabin was murdered by a Likud fanatic with ties to the Mossad, after Netanyahu and his fascist friends have called for violence against Rabin, and compared him to Hitler. That was 30 years ago.

Since then Likud and the less far right parties that briefly ruled in between have turned Israel into what it is now.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

the conspiracy theory is about shabak, not the mossad and it was spread by radical israeli right-wingers as a conpiracy by, what they consider, a leftist shabak that was trying to delegitimize the right and increase the support for the left.
yigal amir supported kahanists like ben gvir and his ilk, not the likud.

after rabin, there was ehud barak who was voted in, who also tried to reach a 2 state solution with arafat in 2000.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Before 1948, Palestinian Leadership repeatedly advocated for a Unitary Binational State for decades: Palestinian Arab Congress advocating for Unified State 1928, Arab Higher Committee advocating for Unified State 1937, Arab League advocating for Unified State 1948

After the founding of Israel, the Two-State Solutions were utilized to further annex the Palestinian Occupied Territories and enact military control over Palestinians while denying them human and civil rights. This is apartheid. Despite this, both Fatah and Hamas have accepted a Two-State Solution on the 1967 borders, with the two most important factors being the Right of Return of Palestinian refugees and an end to the permanent occupation.

Oslo Accord Sources: MEE, NYT, Haaretz, AJ

History of peace process - The Intercept

The settlements represent land-grabbing, and land-grabbing and peace-making don’t go together, it is one or the other. By its actions, if not always in its rhetoric, Israel has opted for land-grabbing and as we speak Israel is expanding settlements. So, Israel has been systematically destroying the basis for a viable Palestinian state and this is the declared objective of the Likud and Netanyahu who used to pretend to accept a two-state solution. In the lead up to the last election, he said there will be no Palestinian state on his watch. The expansion of settlements and the wall mean that there cannot be a viable Palestinian state with territorial contiguity. The most that the Palestinians can hope for is Bantustans, a series of enclaves surrounded by Israeli settlements and Israeli military bases.

  • Avi Shlaim

How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution

‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe

One State Solution, Foreign Affairs

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

Here, here!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago

Freedom of depression.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago

This is not surprising.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

They learned it from us.