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'Struggle with generosity' is to greed, like 'died as a result of an officer involved shooting' is to murder.

Friend making $450k as a software engineer

I’m a software developer. If I just start calling myself an engineer, can I have 450k?

There was a program many years back that discussed this issue. It showed two kids, young girls, one was fairly well off and had all the things you’d expect a young girl to have and some to spare. The other was a young girl living in an impoverished nation and had a very poor family. Think tin roof on adobe walls kind of poor. She had a single stuffed animal that was in dubious shape handed down from child to child. The well-off girl had a small army of stuffed animals.

Point of the segment in the program was how difficult it was for the well off girl to share anything and how possessive she was for her material things, whereas the little girl that had very few things was willing to share her one stuffed animal quite willingly.

Wish I could remember the show. But it demonstrated quite handily that even at a young age people who had more, wanted more, and were unwilling to part with even small things vs the people who had very little.

I had to read a bit to understand what this meant because I didn't know what venmo was, but I have seen people change from being weirdly generous to making more money and fairly quickly becoming irritatingly stingy to the point of nitpicking the rounding when pennies were discontinued.

“If someone does the small-dollar Venmo, it means they don’t feel good,” Bradley says.

So many thoughts after reading this article.

The first is a former partner. We both grew up in families with more than most. She always wanted to make sure we shared all costs (shared Ubers, dinners, etc). I was of the mindset that we each cover things case by case. I'll get this one, you get the next one; it'll more or less balance out. If it feels like I'm disproportionately covering more than my share, I'll let you know. She couldn't think that way.

Further: she'd never had a job and was about to earn her doctorate in psychology. She would later counsel people who would inevitably bring money concerns to her with no experience in any job other than being a fucking doctor. What the eff, I thought. I've worked in a factory, in a restaurant, in retail… Sure, I also later worked at one of the FAANG companies as an engineer and currently work supporting a VIP at a huge agency. But I've been broke and desperate at times even if I could call upon family if things were so bad that I couldn't manage. Most aren't so lucky. How would she ever have any perspective?

Finally, I don't let anyone know my monetary status. Sure, you can figure out that I'm doing ok by the new but modest car that I drive, the apartment I rent, or my home theatre system. But I continue to think of myself as a commoner because I don't have the sort of wealth that lets me purchase favors like the truly wealthy can and do. I live comfortably, not in luxury. I can't imagine being so well off that I couldn't spare a few bucks for a friend without keeping track.

I think the statement that I quoted above probably rings true, but there's likely a lot more to it. I think it represents a sense of guilt over having more than others and internally recognizing that it's unfair but not having the ability to square it.

One of the many reasons that I don't have venmo or any other form of transfer app is so people can't send me some nominal sum of money.

I'm not rich, but definitely one of the higher earners at my job. I don't want some person making less than half what I do worrying about a slice of pizza or a cup of coffee.

To note: This is also not something I gloat over or continuously remind people of or any such thing. I'm just happy to have the resources to be able to bring the smallest smidgen of "make your day a little less shitty"

It is amazing how rich people deal with non-rich people. I managed to climb from poor to reasonable well off, but I cannot understand people who earn many times the money I get to be assholes over small money.

Last week, I took a student that I want to "groom" to work in our development department to an electronics fair. Train, hotel, and ticket were paid for by the company, but the deal was that he has to pay for anything else by himself. Eating out and other expenses are still quite some money for a student, so I paid for his meals out of my own pocket and told him that one time in the future, when he will be the one guiding a student through the same situation, he should do as I did.

Or they're Dutch. Seriously we'll send you a venmo (tikkie) for 3 cents.

I'm working poor and always have been. I never mind buying other people drinks or paying for their fares or whatnot, even if they make more money than I do. My philosophy is that I don't make nearly enough money to ever become rich or even well off, so what would it matter that I turn every cent around fifteen times or not? If at the end of the day I'm happy, and at the end of the month I'm not starving, then I'm living.

I'm suffering from enough shit already (chronic depression, adhd, etc) that complicating my life extra by tracking every red cent in order to deny myself and my family the last few pleasures making life worth living is not an option.

Of course, with this kind of attitude it's unlikely I'll ever become rich, even if I find a high-income job, since I care little about "making it grow". For all I know WW3 could break out tomorrow rendering EUR & USD near worthless. Then what does it matter how much you saved up?

I'm glad that's never happened to me. They wouldn't be my friend anymore.

This isn't any sort of real explanation of anything. It's just someone's opinion. They call her an "expert". She's a certified financial planner with no formal schooling or training. She passed a test and runs a company where she advises people who have suddenly come into a lot of money. That's her only expertise. She has no background in psychology or any information beyond "it rings true" to back up her statements.

As someone whose situation in life has flipped (not ever really that rich, just had family that was worse off) and has suffered it, I can confirm that:

“They don’t want to be taken advantage of or to feel like, ‘I have money and that’s why people hang out with me,’” Bradley says. “It feels very invalidating.”

Because it is true. The more money you have in a situation attracts the sort of people who just want the benefits of it, and if you are generous like my parents were, those sort of people will be the ones who will have no problem becoming stingy and refuse to help them out afterwards without a dollar sign. They've been trained to live off of you and they will still continue to expect to do so even as so far as to believe you are lying while they become the stingiest.

What this article gets wrong is that it isn't because they value money transactions more, it's that they attract the sort of people who only value them for it. Plus, it also skews your own development as a person because if they come the norm in your surrounding, it fosters an environment of making you a mark.

They do not have the same life experience as you, and you may very well be part of the problem is paying your fair share when you are with someone you consider wealthy (even when they tell you they are no longer doing that good or simply seems more bothered by it) offends you.

I think the answer is simply "people who have more money pay more attention to their finances in general". I mean, people who don't pay attention to how they're spending money tend to not stay rich, even when they have a high paying job. But then again, is there any actual evidence that the premise is true? Or is it just a bias that people take more notice when a rich friend asks to pay them back?

It kind of makes sense, though. I grew up a povvo bitch, so if someone wanted to borrow money there were basically two outcomes

A) We simply didn't have the money to lend them
B) We had the money and might as well help them out because we like the person and they'd do the same in turn; at the end of the day we'd still struggle, so a bit less doesn't make a massive difference

I feel like I'm the exact opposite of what this article proposed however the entire thing confuses me.

I'm not rich but relatively well off, and, without doubt in the best financial position of my immediate group of friends.

If I happen to be the one that picks up the bill I often have people chasing me to pay me. I actually think that is a problem because they feel obliged to do the right thing, however I'm unmotivated because I don't care about the outcome -- I don't need the money. This is my fault and I feel poorly for it but the reality is that after I've had a nice evening I don't really care. In terms of the debt: honestly I probably wouldn't bother asking.

The very concept of asking someone for 4 bucks seems abhorrent to me. To be clear, I say this personally; I'm not struggling to pay rent/mortgage/utilities/whatever. If you're in a position where those are concerns then please absolutely follow up.

Chasing a $4 debt won't make you rich, ever. Even if you do it all the time. Anyone well off chasing this kind of cash is deluding themselves.

Generally speaking my friends and I operate over a long term fairness principle. "Bob got the last round, I'll get the next"; they won't be even but our assumption is that it'll balance in the long term. That applies to more than just the pub.