this post was submitted on 13 Apr 2024
454 points (96.3% liked)

Science Memes

11081 readers
2670 users here now

Welcome to c/science_memes @ Mander.xyz!

A place for majestic STEMLORD peacocking, as well as memes about the realities of working in a lab.

Rules

  1. Don't throw mud. Behave like an intellectual and remember the human.
  2. Keep it rooted (on topic).
  3. No spam.
  4. Infographics welcome, get schooled.

This is a science community. We use the Dawkins definition of meme.

Research Committee

Other Mander Communities

Science and Research

Biology and Life Sciences

Physical Sciences

Humanities and Social Sciences

Practical and Applied Sciences

Memes

Miscellaneous

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
454
we are but a gravy train in outer space (mander.xyz)
submitted 7 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
19 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 
top 19 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 12 points 7 months ago (6 children)

Gravity isn't a force tho...

[–] [email protected] 16 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I put it in my force balance equations, it's a force. It doesn't matter that it's from curving spacetime rather than exchanging particles, it still exerts force on things.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

But the point of general relativity is that a free-floating observer is equivalent to an observer in free space. That means that falling due to gravity, which you call a force, is an unaccelerated movement, i.e. no force.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

If I take a relativistic frame of reference. If I take an 'absolute' non moving frame of reference, gravity shows up as a force. I use the later for calculating loads and statics, even though it's technically not correct. And in that case gravity shows up as a force.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago

I'm not trying to argue approximations. Physics is just approximations all the way down. But as a physicist, I also love arguing about technicalities, and that's also kinda the point of science communities for me.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Well, its a geometric deformation of space-time because the displacement by mass

[–] [email protected] 10 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Yes it is. We just don't know what makes it work

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

In our current understanding of physics, it's an effect from the curvature of space and not a force. Quantizing gravity results in unphysical divergences. Whether there will be a way to model gravity as an exchange of particles, we can't know for sure. So according to our current knowledge, it's not a force.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I'm no scientist, but there is some debate about whether it's a fundamental force. Some think it might be like centrifugal force which isn't "real" but shows up in a certain reference frame. Gravity might actually be a result of thermodynamics and entropy.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

There are many things than we experience as distinct forces but may not be actually if you change the reference (ex: centrifugal force is inertia) or if you go deeper into unification (ex: electrostatic force and magnetic force can be unified into electromagnetic force). But physics is about modeling reality in a convenient way for you current reference, we will never be certain to have the "real" final model independent from our observation bias.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Knowledge is knowing that tomato is a fruit.

Wisdom is still not putting it in a fruit salad.

Gravity isn't a force. Its effects can be mapped to an equivalent pseudo force and used as such. Outside of general relativity, or Quantum mechanics discussions, gravity is a force.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

But is it fundamental though?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago

We don't know. Right now, relativity and QM fundamentally disagree on what gravity is. Both are also hugely accurate in their predictions. QM treats it as a force comparable to EM or the strong force. GR says it's space itself moving. The force we experience is just a reaction to us trying to stay still, as space moves through us.

Beyond that, defining anything as fundamental is a challenge. How are you using fundamental?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Depends on your definition. If you stop at quantum mechanics way of defining a force with boson exchange then you may also say gravity doesn't exist, because it's not included in the standard model for now.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

Well, firstly, we can quantize gravity pretty easily, it just has unphysical divergences.

But secondly, I think it makes most sense to talk about the current accepted physics because we don't know how quantum gravity will work.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago

Don’t be saucy

[–] xav 8 points 7 months ago

Sir, this is a certified dad joke here.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago

Gravy is one of the most fundamental forces

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago

Send me some biscuits quick!