this post was submitted on 29 Mar 2024

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Democracy rule (lemmy.ml)

submitted 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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I need y'all to understand: Biden isnt losing votes from the far left. He never had those votes, and could never get them.

He's losing the votes of Muslims and Arabs in Michigan and Philly. He's losing the votes of moderates who are watching Israel's final solution in horror. He's losing the votes of Latinos and Haitians who see the southern border is getting more militarized and more violent every year

[Edit] to be 100% clear: If you oppose Israel's war on Palestine, but plan on voting for Biden this November,this post isn't about you.

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[–] [email protected] 115 points 7 months ago (1 children)

75% percent of democrats disapprove of the military action in Gaza.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx

People don’t vote a single issue.

Some other horrifying things are on the ballot this year. Authoritarianism, Christian nationalism, reproductive rights, women’s right to medical care, etc.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (3 children)

That's why I was specific in calling them "Biden Democrats". I'm not including all Democrats here, nor am I including all Biden voters. "[Name] [party members] " is a shorthand way of talking about either the wing of a party, or a voters whose views align with [name]. This genocide is decades in the making, and Biden's wing of the party has been complicit the whole time.

If you vote for Biden, that doesn't make you a "Biden Democrat". Many people currently protesting the war and taking part in actions will end up voting for Biden this November. I won't Shame them for doing what they think is best.

However, this is Biden's legacy. This is what it means to be a "Biden Democrat". Go ahead and vote for him, but for the love of Blåhaj, don't embrace the fascist policies that he's been pushing for decades.

[–] [email protected] 38 points 7 months ago (1 children)

You do realize under the Biden Administration this is the first time the US has ever even abstained from a vote on the security council against Israel? We’re actually seeing a moment where the US and Israel are legitimately talking about working together less… Real progress is being made. Sometimes politicians get stuck constantly supporting something that was once popular but no longer is. Voting for Biden doesn’t mean supporting genocide. It means trying to push the US back to out from this far right hellscape it’s slipped into. It means trying to end Trumps attempt at running for office and it means trying to put an end to MAGA fascists.

Biden isn’t a great president, but he’s at least a decent one that is trying to pay student debt off, cover more Americans with healthcare, and improve infrastructure around the country. All of which are things Trump didn’t remotely do. That’s not even including the obvious Trump destroying LGBT rights, or taking away women and minority rights, or abolishing mechanisms meant to help POC escape the cycle of poverty due to a broken system.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

You do realize under the Biden Administration this is the first time the US has ever even abstained from a vote on the security council against Israel?

That's because in the past, when the US finally thought Israel went too far, they would directly pressure Israel to stop. Carter did it. Regan did it. Biden could have done it, but he didn't - either deliberately or through incompetence, it doesn't matter. He continued sending arms to Israel and vetoing enforceable security council resolutions without using ANY of the enormous leverage the US gov has over Israel.

Do you not see the absurdity of rushing arms to a country committing genocide and claiming you oppose the genocide because you abstained from a resolution with no real enforcement possibility? It's a sick fucking joke

[–] [email protected] 16 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Carter and Reagan didn’t have Russia, China and Iran spreading talking points to pressure the US to stop supporting Israel.

If your enemies are trying to pressuring you to do something, it’s normal to resist that pressure while you try to figure out what they are up to.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago

That's a pretty weak argument, nearly every state is calling for an end to genocide.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

What talking points these entities have been spreading this time? I haven't heard any tangible thing from neither Russia nor China, that would warrant an unconditional support for Israel by the US. Only Iran has been notably active in this matter, but even that is via proxies and not directly towards Israel's land integrity. US could just simply anchor their carrier strikes groups and no other action would be needed. How does that justify giving out tonnes of heavy destruction bombs to Israel?

[–] [email protected] 30 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

IMHO, over the decades, if you asked America’s Dems why they wanted to give aid to Israel, you’d likely hear that they wanted to help Jewish people to defend themselves, not that they wanted to help Israel attack its neighbors.

Now that Israel is aggressively on the offense, in a way not seen in decades, the Dems have to turn the cruise ship around so people don’t assume not aiding an offensive action ≠ supporting antisemitism.

Half of my family is Jewish-American, and it’s taken a few months for them to come around and understand that not supporting offensive action ≠ antisemitism. After WW2, and years of experiencing antisemitism, their shields are up. They immediately start to worry when people start aggressively scrutinizing a Jewish community, because that has usually been a precursor to some pretty bad shit.

I kind of get why Biden has felt the need to slow walk this. The history has made this a complex and nuanced thing.

Unfortunately, moving slow isn’t great for a people that are starving.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 7 months ago (2 children)

And if you aren't planning to vote for Biden, please go read Project 2025 and then explain your logic again, because what Trump and the Christian right has planned will be actual fascism, right in our own backyard.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 7 months ago (1 children)

They don't care about project 2025, they're only concerned with what the Biden admin is doing now. The fact that the only viable alternative is magnitudes worse is immaterial because that requires thinking too much about the consequences of their own actions.

It's all first order moralizing and completely ignoring the 2nd order and follow on consequences. REEEEEEE genocide Joe bad, crickets on Final Solution Donny.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago

That's the charitable explanation. The less charitable one is astroturfing in an effort to demobilize Democrat-leaning voters.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

>The Heritage Foundation has published new editions in its Mandate for Leadership series coinciding with each presidential election since 1981. Mandate for Leadership: A Conservative Promise is the ninth report in the series and was published in April 2023, earlier than any past releases. Heritage refers to the publication as a "policy bible"

they've been doing the same shit for 40 years. calling it project 2025 was just a way of staying in Vogue. many think tanks are making projects and naming them after future years.

The heritage foundation don't scare me, at least not anymore than the Democrats.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago (1 children)

If you think the Democrats and Republicans are as scary as each other you’re playing into the Republican’s propaganda and are not seeing the bigger picture.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Democrats actually have power. The heritage foundation just hopes the Republicans listen to them.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

When have they not?

[–] [email protected] 28 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (3 children)

I think it's worth mentioning that Biden and his administration are putting more pressure on Israel to allow humanitarian aid into Gaza, and it is actively deteriorating the US/Israel relationship (which I could care less about if it means helping those that need it.) Does this make up for him helping Israel in the first place? No! Of course not! But it does show that he is at the very least hearing some of the criticism of his actions, and is acting accordingly. Of course, I must also stare for the sake of transparency that they have definitely not stopped sending Israel weapons, but as the election approaches and more people voice their disapproval with sending weapons to Israel, that very well could happen in the coming months. If US/Israel relations do break down, it would at the very least mean Israel doesn't get anymore weapons from us, and maybe we could push aid into Gaza regardless of what Isreal wants

Also

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago

Raytheon line must go up

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

The "pressure" is only as far as to show people he's doing something and politically posture. Real pressure would be to actually do things. Like not send them weapons, sanctions, etc.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Biden's america is already fascism for anyone who's queer, black, muslim, or woman. Using trump to threaten these people into submitting to another term of the same isn't going to work.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

How is Biden oppressing those groups? We are in this position (bans on healthcare, etc.) because Trump's three SCOTUS picks overturned Roe v Wade and opened the door for all the insane fascist shit going on right now in the Republican controlled states. A majority of people live in Democratic controlled states that have protections for these groups. Things could get so much worse if Trump is given any more power. His first Presidency already set half of the states in the country back over 50 years in terms of women's rights. He's also promised to enforce the Comstock Act which would effectively ban abortion nationwide by preventing medical supplies used for abortion related healthcare to be sent in the mail. Not only that but hate crime rates have also gone up since Trump's first Presidency enabled white supremacists to express their views more openly.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago (1 children)

And Biden did anything to codify abortion rights in the remaining states that it's allowed? How about packing SCOTUS? Or legislating to remove the blatantly corrupt judges that have proven they'll do all they can to get any fascist into the presidency if not Trump.

People are facing a genocide whilst your wrinkle old fuck hands the perpetrators weapons to finish the job: gaslighting muslims, black people, and women to vote for a genocidal freak who did nothing to protect them at home OR abroad is a total affront to basic decency let alone sense.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Abortion is already codified in some states that are under Democratic control. But Biden is President of the US, not of each individual state. He doesn’t have the power to write or enforce state law. His Department of Justice is challenging some state laws in court. It is not codified at a federal level because Democrats do not have enough votes in the Senate or House to do that. Packing SCOTUS also would require Senate approval.

And I didn’t gaslight anybody or say who to vote for. I only asked how Biden contributes to a fascist America and pointed out that the extremism in this country resulted from Trump’s presidency. The damage that Trump did to this country will take generations to fix and Biden doesn’t have the power to fix everything on his own.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

The first part of your post would make sense if Biden just entered politics a few years ago. But hes been in politics for half a century.

Biden has been near or at the helm of US power for about 30 years. He is the face of the 'bipartisan consensus' that got us into this neoliberal hell of forever wars and dictator judges.

I mean, you put the blame overturning Roe entirely on the supreme Court. Do you know how long Biden was on the judiciary committee? He should've resigned in disgrace for how he treated Anita Hill. In hindsight, seeing how Thomas's confirmation was handled should've made it clear that Roe's days were numbered.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 7 months ago (5 children)

Are they being beaten, locked up, or killed currently? Because that's what a Trump Presidency would mean.

Things can always get worse.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago (3 children)

Every fucking day you actual dimwit. This is why having to deal with "im gonna vooooot!" nerds is so insanity-inducing: because trans people are being killed and driven out of their states while Biden licks his fucking ice cream and refuses to even legislate to end the repression in blue states .

He's literally signing off on more weapons for Israel as you type this asinine shit. He never did a THING to stop the killing at the Mexican border or the endless killing by your cops and your fascists. He forced the railworkers not to strike whilst your rail infrastructure poisoned millions.

He's hoping they make useful idiots like you just pissed off enough to vote for him again, but he's no different to Trump because he just left every horrible thing Trump did fester and build up whilst he and Kamala laughed all the way to the bank.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

So instead of letting him win, we should let Trump get a second term, so instead of being left to fester everything Trump did can be reinforced. Got it.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago

Hey the president doesn’t control the laws of individual states, and barely has any power to legislate. Congress legislates

[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Yes, they are currently being beaten and killed. Not locked up due to their identity, but it would be actually mind boggling if Trump getting elected was the single thing needed for that to happen.

Yes it could get worse, but everyone gets into a frenzy over a single election every four years and acts like that's the deciding factor for how it will be for the next four years. Everyone should be working together to fix the systemic issues that allows trump to radicalize the right. Focusing on the the cause of the infection, like ranked choice voting, removing the electoral college, better education. Spread those ideas in your community, demand your local representatives push for it in the government, and fight the divisive attitudes.

That's my issue with the Democrats talking points, it's divisive and encourages radicalizing people as much as the Republicans. Because in a two party system, both parties benefit from radicalizing their group against each other. And I am absolutely not saying we tolerate intolerance from the right, but I'm saying there are better ways to fight it than voting for Biden who benefits from the "vote for me or else the bad guys win". There's no accountability, like when he supports a country that's killing thousands of innocent people.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 7 months ago (1 children)

That's all great, but those changes take years, decades, generations. The election is in 7 months. There's not enough time to enact these changes and we won't get a chance to make them if we have another Trump Presidency.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Those changes would happen faster if the decaying old fascist you're begging people to vote for actually did anything instead of gaslighting muslims into backing his islamophobic party.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago

Haha how is he fascist? If anything, he's neoliberal.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago

Yes, they are? Pay fucking attention.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago

Yes, yes they are. I'm not saying a Trump presidency would be better, but you seriously need to look outside your personal bubble.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

Exactly what people said last time, didnt happen.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 7 months ago

I need y'all to understand: Biden isnt losing votes from the far left. He never had those votes, and could never get them.

He (and the two party system) lost me when they had control of the senate and still couldn't pass things like voting reform because of Manchen and Sinema.

Then Roe was overturned and they Dems said if I voted for them next election they'll fix it, rather than trying to do anything now.

The more left I became the less likely I was to vote Biden. I had already decided to vote third party before the recent atrocities in Gaza.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Switching away from first past the post voting allows people to vote for who represents them best while still counting their vote against those they dont want to win. Just search for videos on FPTP voting if you want an explanation on how and why the spoiler effect exists.

Electoral reform is possible in each individual state (for now), we dont need federal reform! Maine and Alaska have already passed electoral reform.

So what’s the hold up with the rest of the states? Consider starting a campaign to change how we vote in your own state! Force our representatives to compete with fresh outside ideas. We deserve the best representation, not excuses.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago

I am from Alaska and I love that we have FPTP/Ranked Choice. A lot of my coworkers are super right leaning, and have been crying that ranked choice is the only reason any left leaning candidates have won. They want to ditch it and return to the old archaic system.

I've tried and tried to explain how it's such a better system, and that it means that you can vote for the person you actually want, instead of the 'if I don't vote for this guy, the other guy who I definitely don't like will win'. They just didn't get it; they kept going on and on about how 'Oh you just want people to be able to vote twice. people should only get to vote once' 🤦

[–] [email protected] 10 points 7 months ago

Florida latinos (Cubans, Venezuelans) looooove the conservative narrative that Dems are socialists that lead to dictatorships, and are so scared & truggered they will vote for the Republicans who actually are; the "Macho strongman" plays into thier psyche.

Haitians have always ben shat on by the US, if they are caught coming over/landing they're shipped right back (as opposed to the Cuban standard of "one dry foot": meaning if they manage to land thier boat and get on shore they can stay/seek asylum).